Call of Leadership

The Call of Leadership

Relationships are an area all of us can improve one.  Josh Wesolek decided to take his ideas and turn them into a book.  Quick and easy to read, this book gives men 30 different ways to show up for the women who they love.

Show Notes:

By buying this book, you are accomplishing three things

  • You will have supported this author
  • You will have supported this podcast
  • You’ll have another 30 different ways to elevate your relationship

Josh’s Book Website

Josh’s Book (Paperback)

Josh’s Book (Audible)


Cliff Duvernois: [00:00:00] hello everyone. And welcome to a, another one of Cliff’s book reviews to where we interview Michigan authors and the books that they have written. And congratulations today, we actually have a Michigan author on the podcast, so you won’t just have to listen to me, talk for the next 20 or 30 minutes. but I’ve read his book. 

And I think it’s really cool. And I think it’s a great way to kick off this series, but the name of the book is called Josh’s book. Read it for her. And the author is Josh Wesolek. And Josh is joining us today, Josh, how are you? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:00:28] Good Cliff. Thanks so much. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:00:30] So why don’t you tell everybody a little bit about, where you’re from? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:00:33] Well, like you said, my name is Josh. I’m from Saginaw, Michigan. I’ve been here all my life. I’ve moved around a little bit for jobs, but mostly in Saginaw. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:00:41] Excellent now. I have to ask this question. And, and actually, before I ask this question, let’s talk a little bit about your book. What is your book? What is Josh’s book about? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:00:51] Josh’s book is basically. I call it a list of tips. For guys who want to treat their girls better.  and that, that could be, you know, your girlfriend, fiance, wife. And, I wanted it to be kind of bite-sized chunks of just easy to use, easy to apply.  just ways that we can help our relationship grow or strengthen our relationship, or if you’re having problems in your relationship, maybe this can overcome some of those problems, but basically it’s just a way for guys to treat their girls better. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:01:24] I like the concept of this already, but. Why write a book. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:01:28] Okay. So I wish I could say it was,  All my studies of,  behavioral science and female. Brainology brought me to these conclusions. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:01:37] Huh. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:01:39] wasn’t anything like that. Really the reason I wrote the book is because I was irritated one day.  you know, really this has been a long time coming, all my life. I’ve kind of been that guy where my friends would come to and Oh, 

Man, my girlfriend said this, or I said this and I shouldn’t have done it. What do I do? And, you know, I would try my best, even though I knew. Barely anything more than they did about girls. But, you know, I was just always there with an open ear and try to help guys, you know, get through it. 

And, Over my life, you know, I’ve just tried to be the best boyfriend fiance husband I could be. And I always heard a lot where, you know, if my wife would posts out on Facebook or say something to her friends. You always hear that, Oh man, you should write a book or you should give a class or something like that. 

And I never paid it any mind. But, There came a point where. And this was in a span of two days, I think. And this is. Fairly recently, probably within the last two years.  Well, obviously in the past two years, cause I wrote a book two years ago. But I took my wife a smoothie. She was working at the school. 

The summertime, I was just out and about doing whatever. And I got a smoothie and I figured, you know what? It’s hot out. There’s no air conditioning in that school. I’m just going to stop buying, take her a smoothie. No big deal. So I did, it took 15 minutes out of my day when I took her as moody. 

And later on that day, she told me that like her teacher friends were just flabbergasted by this. And making comments like my husband would never do that. And that just kind of threw me for a loop. I’m like, what do you mean your husband would never do that? It’s not like this huge thing. And, that just kind of struck me kind of sideways. 

And the very next day I go to work and I overheard a phone call. With a coworker of mine who had just recently got married. I mean recent to the point where they should have still been in the honeymoon, you know, honey muffin, pumpkin, baby. Love you stage. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:03:29] Yeah. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:03:29] And, Instead he was, you know, I’m really busy. You know, I gotta go. Okay. Just make sure you go to this. Okay. Bye. And man that just struck a chord with me. And I was so upset that, you know, A newlywed. Is still not, you know, saying I love you and be in romantic and things. And so I went home that night and I said, you know what, all those people that said, I should write a book, maybe they’re onto something. So. 

I just sat down and wrote a whole bunch of topics down that I thought would be kind of typical guy things.  that the stereotypical guy has problems with. And, I wrote down about 50 things and who. Down to 30 and just decided to write bite-sized chunks that, it’s real easy to read and doesn’t take a long time and, just, just to help. 

Us guys. Be better guys. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:04:17] So I like this concept already. And you know, the one thing is when I did pick up the book and I did sort of rating and you talked about bite-sized chunks, you’re not kidding.  each chapter literally is like two pages. 

What, what is the appeal of writing it in this style versus,  some of these other books where I’ve read where a chapter is like 50 pages or 75 pages. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:04:39] Yeah, well, I mean, this may just be my own experience, but I am really not a big reader. I don’t like. Just sitting and reading the book. I just, I’d never been able to do it. I can’t, I can’t focus that long or whatever. And, Another thing is like the stereotypical guy, I guess I’ll use that term. 

Doesn’t really want. Relationship help. You know, I don’t really want your advice. I’m good. I know what I’m supposed to be doing. You know, I don’t need any fancy doctors telling me what to do. And I have read a few relationship books. I mean, everybody knows the love language book, which is excellent, but. 

A lot of the books out there are written by psychologists and doctors and counselors, and they have all this jargon and all this, you know, medical background. Everything is so wordy by the time you get through it. And you’re like, Oh my goodness, what did I just read? And I, you know, I, I feel like I’m going to go into a psychologist myself and I don’t need all this. So. 

Thinking along that lines. I wanted to make it. Almost like a handbook where. Okay. Oh my gosh. We’re arguing. What are we arguing about? And they can flip through the book and be like, okay, what should I do about this? And it’s real easy. It’s real quick. And to the point, I don’t put a lot of fluff in there. 

 it’s just read it. 

What would you need and move on. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:05:54] And speaking of which, when I’m flipping through here and I’m taking a look at some of these chapter names, Some of this stuff, you know, you could almost just read the title of the chapter. And just move on. Right? So, you know, one of them is called, go on dates. There’s another one that’s called dance with her, which I actually want to talk about that one. 

don’t fix it, let her cry, things like that. So a lot of the stuff in here I find interesting and I actually highlighted the section of don’t buy her roses and chocolates. That to me is so counterintuitive because especially around Valentine’s day. I just, I just get bombarded with a whole. 

chocolate, you know, chocolate flowers thing. And you’re right though, the price does triple, but I want to talk about this section with, you know, dance with her. Cause I think that. You know, and I’m going to say this out there. And I remember as a kid growing up and having this stereotype of beat into my skull where there’s just certain things that men don’t do. And one of the things that men don’t do is men don’t dance. Right? And this is.

You know, I remember it just took me forever before I finally, got out there onto the dance floor and, you know, I resembled kind of like an epileptic monkey. And I really, there was nothing like really like, you know, sexy about it. But the one thing that I have always loved to do is slow dance, which is what this chapter in here particularly talks about. So. 

You know, I guess the question is, for the guy out there that may be stuck in real men, don’t do this real men don’t dance or real men don’t well, you know, whatever that is.  what’s the advantage of, of overcoming that stigma of  how do you overcome, all that years of self reinforcement? What is it? 

What is that you’re doing? Y Y in the bigger picture does that matter? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:07:29] Oh boy. That’s a big question.  you know, the real man title. I’m not sure exactly where that came from. I mean, I get what you’re saying that that has been sore. 

You know, ingrained in us growing up. Real men are supposed to just be out in the garage, fixing cars and, you know, wearing plaid shirts and cutting down trees. You know, Real man. If you really think about it, if. If every guy tried to be a real man, as we were kind of brought up. That’s a lonely life. 

To live because. You know, a real man is supposed to be self-sufficient. We don’t show emotions. We don’t bring anybody in to help. We don’t talk about anything. So what a lonely Island. To be on as a real man. So I think as you know, when you’re going through my book, I think it can kind of flip that script and show you that. 

A real man is a man that takes care of his girl that takes care of his wife, takes care of his girlfriend, a real man. Is supposed to provide, but that doesn’t just mean. I’m only provide money. I’m going to work all the time because that’s what men do or I’m just going to work, work, work. That’s not what being a real man is being a real man. 

Is being there and giving your time and giving your energy and giving your attention and just given your love. I mean,  the slow dancing part that I was talking about. I’m just like you I’m. I am not like a dancer. 

I’ll never get out there. I think I wrote in the book and you know, I’ll never get out there and 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:08:54] Dancing with the stars. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:08:55] Yeah, no, I’m never going to do that. I mean, Slow dancing is my limit, but. I love slowed Hansen. I mean, You can tell when someone gets married and they have their first, you know, the. A bride and groom dance. 

It’s such a connection and they’re always so happy. And it’s just them and it’s all by themselves. But. Anytime you go to a slow dance. Anytime you’re at a reception or a party or something. Anytime there’s a slow dance. When you go and dance with your wife or your girlfriend or something, if you do it right, it’ll fit can feel just like that. Every time it can create. 

The leg. You’re the only ones out there and that’s what your girl needs. She needs that connection to you. And who cares? What anybody else thinks? I mean, Any guys that are laughing at you. All my guys look at, he’s just, you know, being a whimper, a sissy or something, and he’s out there dancing. 

Well, they’re probably not dancing and they probably don’t have any connections. And they’re probably just sitting at the table all alone. So, I guess, that’s kinda my flip on the real man thing. Do you want to be alone and be a real man or. Do you want to have a connection and a relationship and be what a man is supposed to be? 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:09:59] Man. I love that. That is absolutely great. So four. For somebody who is,  for this particular book and the style, and they’re thinking, you know, this is something that I’m actually interested, but from, from your standpoint, being the author, what would you say are three key takeaways that people should have from this book? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:10:18] I think one of the takeaways. When I read through Atlanta. There’s nothing really. Earth shattering in this book. So I think one of the takeaways is it’s the little things that matter. You don’t always have to do any extravagant. You know, plans and spend thousands of dollars to. Make your wife happy to make a girl happy. 

It’s just the little things, you know, leave her notes. Say, I love you. You know, take her on a little. Walk on the beach or something, you know, there’s nothing earth shattering about it. But you can slip in a little things every day. And that is so much more meaningful than, you know, these. Big ornate plans that you create. I mean, those are great, but. 

How often does that happen? You know? So, it’s the little things that matter. I think that’s one good takeaway.  another one is that. can improve.  this book isn’t just for, you know, brand new relationships. This isn’t for someone who’s just trying to figure out girls.  I’ve had a lot of people who have been married for 30, 40, 50 years apply a lot of these things to their relationships after all that time, they still read it and they’re like, huh? 

I never thought of it that way, or I never even knew that was a thing. I never thought she thought of it that way. And, it’s not, not to put anyone down is just that there’s always room for improvement. There’s always ways to make a girl happier. I mean, that’s, that’s the whole point of this is just to keep her happy. Keep her smiling. 

And so, yeah, it’s a little things that matter. Anyone can improve. And then.  there’s a chapter in the book it’s called never stop winning her. And I think that can really be the theme. Of the whole book. And basically it talks about, you know, we put all this energy. Into courting this girl, you know, when we were, when we were dating or when we were trying to. 

Trying to get her to date us. You know, man, we’d go out of our way. We do all this special stuff, weed. You know, we’d meet her at whenever she wanted to meet. We’d buy a little presence, you know? Just whatever we could do to get her, to notice us and to make her, to make her like us. And, once we get to that point, once we do have her as our girlfriends or wives, 

We should never stop that. We should always treat it. Like we’re still trying to win her, even though we have her, we should still try to win her. We should. I mean, don’t just be a placeholder. We’re married now, I’m going to be on the couch. You know, I got the title. So we’re good. I’m a husband. And so that’s, that’s all that’s going to be, you know, you don’t want to be a placeholder, just always be active. 

Always be engaged and pay attention. And, just never stopped winning her. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:12:52] circling back to your first point, when you said the little things matter, The one thing that really surprised me about this book is how a lot of these. these, you know, different suggestions, these, these ideas to keep the relationship fresh and to keep it vibrant, involved. 

Most of them are free. 

But, , a lot of them was like,  very,  little money. And, and I think that,  when you, when you take a look at like the,  the section in there about,  when you talk about, by her ice cream, 

Right. And if the fact that, you know, she’s, you know, maybe doesn’t want to buy the ice cream because she wants to use that money towards a bill or something. And, and she’s doing this because she’s a caregiver. 

And you say, well,  kind of flip this and become the caregiver. You know, she,  she really would like to ice cream, but she wants to pass, get it for her anyways. So she’s got a treat. So, you know, and I know that,  My ice cream is just not something that’s like really super expensive. But in a lot of these cases, what you outlined in the book, it’s,  it’s really the gesture. It is the thought, it is the act behind it. Not necessarily the dollar amount. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:13:53] That’s exactly it. It’s, it’s just doing something,  just, you know, you’ve heard, it’s the thought that counts it’s kind of along that lines, basically, all that does is just lets her know. That I’m thinking about you and I’m actively being involved in our relationship. And I am always trying to make you as happy as I can make you. So that’s basically all it is. I mean, it doesn’t have to be extravagant. Like I said, 

Just let her know that you’re in it. Let her know that you’re thinking about her, let her know that you want what’s best for. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:14:23] Yeah. This reminds me of something that I ran across a number of years ago. And it’s by Tony Robbins, a life strategist coach, but he called it the law of familiarity. Right. If you’re around. Somebody long enough that you have a tendency to take them for granted. And what I thought about your book when I was reading it, of course, was that this is a really great. 

A pattern, interrupt, you know, somebody who is sitting there thinking, man, you know, I’d like to. You know, have that freshness in my relationship again. This thing is just Chuck full of all kinds of great ideas, something that goes beyond just buying chocolates and flowers. So, you know, I thought this was really nice that you mentioned before. 

About how,  a lot of people have been reading your book. A lot of people have,  kind of like implemented Samir ideas. Do you have a one story in particular that a reader of your book came back with and said, you know, your, your book. Yeah, maybe save my relationship or, saved my marriage or, brought us back to a happy place. Do you have a story like that to share? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:15:19] You know, I wish I had like a, like a real relationship saving story. I haven’t personally heard one, but I do have smaller stories that I’ve heard and, And again, just little things, but it’s amazing. How much, these little things matter because when people have, and usually I’m hearing this from the life or the girlfriend, you know, I don’t usually hear from the guys. 

I get feedback from the wife. And, it’s amazing how much, just one little gesture, even if they take one thing out of the book. And apply it. It’s it’s almost like a. Almost like a personality change. Like it’s such a switch for the guy to do certain things. And when they do it, the wife really notices and that just shows how important, just little things are. So for example, 

One of the couples that I gave the book to.  she called me up about a week later and said, yeah, while he was reading it, he just looked over and told me that he loved me. Which even just something simple like that is, was so big for her. Because it’s not a common thing in their household. And then, the next day. 

He even wrote her a little cutesy little poem, you know, it was probably nothing fancy. 

He did it. He’s making little gestures. So he’s, he’s reading the book, he’s applying it. And man, it was enough for the girl. Mention it to me. That’s, that’s how important it is because wow. She’s got to say something about it because that usually doesn’t happen.  and then, just last week I was talking to a guy that read the book and, we were talking about, you know, I asked him if he read it. 

And, he said, man, I read it, but I gotta read it again because there’s a lot of stuff I need to apply. And he mentioned how just the night before he and his wife had gotten into an argument. But while they were arguing, he was going over, things that he read in that book in his mind. And that helped him diffuse that argument because he realized that he was kind of in the wrong. 

And he used hips that he read my book to try to appease the situation and, you know, kind of quelled that argument. And that, but, I think one of the most touching ones I had was a long time, couple. And, they’ve been married. I can’t remember exactly what she said, but it’s decades. And, she was the one after she read the book, she said, Oh, but my husband does all of these except for maybe one or two things, you know? 

And I’ve heard that a lot too. I do all that stuff, but she said after reading this book,  just a random night, they were sitting in the living room and he took my advice and got up and turned on. Some music, took her hand off the couch and just danced with the rate in the living room. Which he had never done before in their whole relationship and their whole marriage. 

So even that far along. Just picking up one extra thing. Like I said, we can all improve and that was so impactful to her. So touching to her and it just, it makes me feel good. It swells my heart up to know that, you know, these simple actions are, are. Making such an impact and guys are taking it to heart. 

Because they’re such simple things. You just have to get up and do it. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:18:17] And. And you’re absolutely correct. This is. You know, a lot of these things in this book are absolutely simple. And you know, the story that you just shared, I thought it was really touching. you know, the question that I got for you is that, now how long have you been married? 

 Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:18:31] we’ve been together for 28 years. We’ve been married 21 of those years. All right. High Sweethearts. Oh, 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:18:39] Yes, congratulations.  what are some of the things in the book that you use, particularly on a, on a daily basis to help keep your relationship fresh and vibrant? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:18:48] You know, I. And I’m trying not to sound like pretentious or anything, but I try to do. Everything in my book. I mean, why else would I have written it? If, yeah. If I hadn’t had experience in these things, you know, I, I try to do them all. I mean, obviously you’re not doing everything every day. Hold on I’m I’m only at chapter 26 today, you know? 

We don’t do them all the time, but.  The ones that I use all the time. And, I’ll just kind of use some of the titles here, but, one of the chapters is don’t hang up without saying, I love you. We do that all the time. Never, ever will never hang up without saying, I love you, even if it’s kind of a heated phone call, even if we’re kind of not seeing eye to eye. 

Even if we got a grumble it out. I love you. You know, we always say it. Because. the reason I do it. Is because you never know what’s gonna happen the next minute. You know, so. We always say, I love you. And it doesn’t sound like a big thing. But you’re always hearing it. It’s always in your ear. 

You know, we know that we love each other. So I do that all the time.  The go on dates. That when I try to do is often as we can, which. With COVID season has been increasingly difficult. But, and I worked second shift and she recently works. Kind of all over the place. So it’s been harder and harder for us to meet up. 

But. I really try to keep that. In the forefront and we don’t get to do too often. But, you know, we try to make it a point, at least a hopefully like twice a month, even. Just go do something. It doesn’t even matter what you do. I mean, recently, We’ve been going to this little place, in Bay city called muscle beach has just, just a little diner and you can’t even go in and eat. So we just drive up there and get some food and eat it in the van. 

And. That’s good. That’s a date. Sometimes it’s written by the Bay. So we’ll drive over to the Bay and look at the water, any, you know, It’s nothing fancy, nothing extravagant. It’s just little diner food, but Hey, it’s just us. We’re away from the kids. And we’re just talking about stuff that adults talk about. You know, we don’t have to. 

You know, We don’t have to go to any five star restaurant or anything it’s just getting out. Or sometimes we just go for a walk sometimes. You just drive around. You don’t even go anywhere, you just drive and talk and just be together. So I really try to get that. Happening at least a couple times a month. 

And then, 

Really probably in general, the one I use a lot is just paying attention. And that’s another chapter in the book is just to pay attention. Always kind of be active, always kind of be listening, always be engaged. Because the more I listened to her, not even listen to her, sometimes she doesn’t want to talk. Sometimes you just notice that she looks a little different as she looks down or she’s a little rushed or something. 

If you’re paying attention. There’s always an opportunity to reach out and find out what she needs or what’s going on, or you can, You know, maybe come up with.  Oh, she’s feeling down today or I knew she was having a hard day, so, you know, I’ll come home and after I get out of work on second shift, I’ll stop to, you know, Kroger or whatever. 

Get her some flowers. And so when she wakes up, she’ll have some flowers to brighten her day, just. Just pay attention, just be active. So. Those are. Under the ones that I use again, I, I try to use them all eventually. But those three, we say, I love you all the time. We try to get some time with just us. 

And, just pay attention all the time. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:22:13] Yeah. And what that reminded me of, in the book, when I was reading, that was the, was the importance of being present.  in that moment, and it’s very realistic that you could be physically there, but you can be mentally someplace else.

And. Yeah, exactly. And we got a world that’s just absolutely filled with distractions because you know, our phone is our lifeline to the world or the television, or, you know, the Jillian to things that are absolutely on your plate. And sometimes, it, and it does take practice because I’ll admit this is something that I struggled with as well. 

But just being present in that moment and making sure that you are there. So when you’re, when you’re talking anyways, I think is really powerful. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:22:53] Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of that,  like I was mentioning earlier about just a guy sitting on the couch. And, you know, 

Your wife’s talking to you and you’re just doing the passive. 


Well, what did I just say?  

I don’t want to be that guy. I want to pay attention. Look at her. 

You know, 

Connect that’s, that’s really what this is all about is just having that connection. And now, again, just not being a placeholder in another relationship. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:23:16] And that’s absolutely true. So Josh, if somebody is listening to this interview and they want to get a copy of your book, where can they find it? 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:23:23] The easiest place is just to go to the website. It’s Josh’s 

J O S H S B O O K. Josh’s 

 it talks a little bit about the book, but there’s a, you know, get it now or buy now button or something like that. And it’ll take you to the Amazon page. 

And that’s exclusively where it’s sold right now. It’s on Amazon and it’s a paperback or an ebook. 


I say it’s easier to go on the website because with all their algorithms, 

So sometimes even if you go to Amazon and type in Josh’s book, 

It’ll bring you up to 5,000 books that are written by a guy named Josh, and it’s a little harder to find. So Josh’s is probably the best way to go. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:24:00] Excellent. And you’ve got an audio version on the way. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:24:03] Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. I did record this as an audio book and I was inspired to do that because I work at the Foundry at general motors and, 

It’s just noisy or you’re kind of, you know, In all this. Arie noise and machine noise and stuff. And I noticed that a lot of people will listen to like podcasts and videos and music and stuff while they’re working. And as I said before, I’m not a big reader, but I can listen to stuff all day long. 

So I wanted to make an audio version where if someone is too busy or they don’t like reading. And even like, we were talking about a real man, a man’s man who works in the garage or works in a Foundry. You can at least put on some earbuds and listen to the book. And, I mean, it’s, it’s only probably like an hour and 40 minutes is not really that long of a book. 

But. It’s broken up into separate MP3s. You can. You know, go to the chapters that you want to go to or relisten to it. And so I did record it. I submitted it to the company. And they have approved the quality of it. And for the past few weeks I’ve been waiting. It just, it’s stuck on heading to retail. 

So I’m hoping by the time people hear this, that it will be available. And if it is it’s going to be available on iTunes. and Amazon. And you can just search for Josh’s book on either three of those. And I’m assuming that will come up.  I can’t tell you how much that’s going to be because with the audio book world, I learned that you have no control over the pricing of that. That is determined by the website that sells the book based on like length and. 

You know, topic and things like that. So, I can’t tell you how much that’s going to be, but, I would appreciate anybody to go look it up if, If they like listening to audio books, hopefully it’ll be out. 

Cliff Duvernois: [00:25:48] Excellent. And for the audience out there, we will have links in the show notes. Dumbo, Josh. Thanks so much for, for taking time today, out of your schedule to come and talk to us really about this. What I think is a really good book. So thank you for taking that time. 

Josh Wesolek, Josh’s Book Book Review: [00:26:03] Thank you very much.