Call of Leadership

The Call of Leadership

What does it take to live life on your own terms? Jim Doyon knows and he shares that with us today. From starting his own business, helping others grow theirs, to taking his family on an extended multi-year road trip, Jim shows no signs of slowing down and he’s loving it.

Show Notes:



Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: I try to help other business owners to understand that in the end, if you’re passionate about what you’re doing, and you have a good model, and you’re happy, sky’s the limit.

Cliff Duvernois: So what makes Michigan a great state? I’m glad you asked. 

Cliff Duvernois: My name is Cliff Duvernois and I’m on a quest to answer that exact question. After 20 years, I’ve returned to my native Michigan, and I’m looking to reconnect with my home state. I’m talking to the people who are behind Michigan’s great businesses and top destinations, the same people who work hard every day to make our lives a little bit brighter.

Cliff Duvernois: And you Michigander. Are coming along for the ride. 

Cliff Duvernois: This is the Call of Leadership podcast.

Podcast Interview:

Cliff Duvernois: Hello everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the Call of Leadership podcast. Now today’s guest is the co-founder of Woodward Movement, which is a branding and promotional products agency focused on visually telling your brand’s story. He’s also the host of the newly launched business branding and lifestyle podcast, Remote Start.

Cliff Duvernois: Now as a serial entrepreneur, he started his first business at the age of 20, but now he’s on a mission to help others create their desired lifestyle by starting a business or even growing their current company into a much sought after brand. He’s a father, two, three rad kids, loving husband and avid mountain biker.

Cliff Duvernois: And he has been living on the road since 2020, which we’re actually gonna dive into, uh, and his family is traveling around the country in an RV, born and raised in Las Vegas. Then he moved to Michigan where he graduated from Michigan state university. So after he’s done with all of this traveling, he’s looking forward to settling down with his brother and sister in salt lake city.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, prior to Woodward movement, they started another company. I’m gonna assume it’s his first company. Ink addict apparel, which they sold. So now they can actually help us help other companies grow through branding and with merchandising as well. Ladies and gentlemen, please. Welcome to the show, Jim Doyon. Jim, how are you?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Cliff, I am doing incredible. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I’m I’m. Extremely excited to be here and, you know, talking face to face with you. It’s it’s an honor. So thank you.

Cliff Duvernois: No problem. And for our audience I cheated here because Jim and I were in the same, advanced marketing group online. And when he made a comment about how he was from Michigan, I was like, what? I gotta have this guy on my podcast. So it’s awesome. We were able to connect and you were able to take time out of your RV lifestyle to chat with me so

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Yeah, super stoked, man. I’m, I’m looking forward to getting into it and hopefully your audience can learn a few things and I look forward to, being a resource even. Go for them.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. So let’s jump right into it. You were born and raised in Las Vegas, but then you moved to Michigan. Why did you move to Michigan?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: I have deep roots in Michigan. My mom was born and raised in Michigan. She has five brothers and sisters, my grandfather big Polish family from Detroit Hamtramck 18 brothers and sisters. So I have a lot of connections in Michigan. We always used to come for the summers. I think my mom did that on purpose, so I wouldn’t realize how good it was in the winter.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: When she, I actually had my dorm picked out at Colorado state and my uncle Jim, he’s a, he’s my been my mentor since I was young, he had, uh, actually owned a couple Papa Rams pizza restaurants and my uncle, Matt owned one. And they owned one together and they came out and said, Hey. This is when I, I was just graduating.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: He said, you should really come to Michigan state. I’d applied, but I applied late and I didn’t get in until second semester because of that. And it was like, Hey, come live with me. Look into my business, help me out. I’ll help you with your business or with help you learn business.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so it was, it was kind of a no brainer for me. So I was so happy. I made the move, went to McComb community college my first semester and love that experience and then transferred up to Michigan state and had a, an experience of a lifetime.

Cliff Duvernois: that experience beautiful. Now you said that your uncle had a business and he wanted you. to join the business. Did he ever say like why he wanted to do that? Did you ever express an interest in learning stuff about business? Has this been something like being an entrepreneur? Is this something you dreamed about since you were a kid?

Cliff Duvernois: What’s that story?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Yeah, I’ve always loved business. I’ve always looked up to, business and being in business for myself and. Ever since I was young, I had a journal that was next to my bed and I’d come up with business ideas constantly. And just things that I thought were cool. And just even every time I talked to him and learning from him about business, it just really helped me spark my interest and understanding what I wanted to do when I grew up.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And you know, it for, for him, it was come live with me. Helped me in my business and learn. And that was, and I did, and it, it set the stage for, what came, even 20 years after that,

Cliff Duvernois: stage for beautiful. Let’s talk about. Your decision to start ink apparel. Now, is this the business that you started when you were 20? You know,

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: No. So InkAddict apparel was started with a college friend and actually one of my best friends who I’m still in business with today. But my first business was a valet parking company. Up at college. And I had there was a lot of different local businesses that used us. We had in the winter, it was very busy, had a lot of employees, 20 different college kids working for me at that time.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: In the winter, it was. Everybody wanted to valet park and the summer was slow. So started a detailing, portion of that. We were set up at the country Walnut Hills country club which I don’t believe is there anymore, but at the time, if you were golfing, you remember you could drop your car off, we’d detail it for you.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: So I was always trying to find ways to make money, stay busy and, yeah. That started it, put me through college and was an unbelievable experience. And then, um, I decided to walk away from that business. And actually, I, I left it with a couple of my employees and I got a great opportunity to work for a family owned business, but large company in St.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Clair called Buer lumber and within a less than a year of being there. I wrote, I think it was about a 30 page business plan of a division of their company. I thought they should start. And I took it to my boss and he said, you need to go sit down with the owner. So I did. So, and the owner said, Let’s start this.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We just have find you, uh, find your you a replacement. And then, you can work with some others in the company who have a lot more experience than, than you do. Cause I didn’t, I was still so fresh, but you know, really it’s. With any business, it’s just about hearing what your customers need and what they want and understanding what’s going to help them and help yourself.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And that’s all I did. And it was, it ended up being a very successful division of their company. They still own it. But through that about a year into that, my college roommate, Nathan great friend college roommate. Used to talk business constantly. And fun fact, he actually used to work for my other uncle at Papas, which is how we met they put us in connection, but he came to me with a really cool idea of he had a tattoo on his arm that he wanted to actually like take a picture of. Extract the tattoo and then put it on a shirt for his mom for mother’s day, cuz the tattoo resembled her. It was what he got it for her. 

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And in that process, he couldn’t find anybody, any, any designers or anybody that would take, you know, an image of that tattoo and extract the skin, tone from it and just put the artwork on the t-shirt.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so he thought it would be a really cool idea. I’m a very creative person. I love the thrill of starting something new and, and what’s behind that. And so when he told me it was just instant, like, Hey, let’s do this. And so we started really research more and dig into it. And we started just outta my basement in Royal Oak and about.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: I’d say probably six months to a year into this concept. We realized that, really wasn’t scalable that there really wasn’t an opportunity to take that model and grow it to where we thought we could grow a business. And so I. Just through kind of the evolution of the idea. We ended up working with a lot of tattoo artists in locally, as well as nationally that, wanted to grow their brand, their personal brand by promoting their artwork.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And we were that medium of putting in on a clothing article of clothing and launching a brand around that. So ink addict apparel started. Putting a tattoo on a t-shirt, but it definitely quickly changed to creating this brand within this community of tattoo artists that went to, I mean, a pretty big scale.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: So yeah, that, that was, so that would’ve been my third company, I guess you could say, if you, if you count the one I created for Buer.

Cliff Duvernois: so let’s go back. I want, I wanna go back and talk about the experience at Buer lumber. Cuz you said you sat down, wrote down this 30 page business plan. They’re like you gotta go talk to the owner. How were, how old were you at this.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: I was probably 25. I’d say.

Cliff Duvernois: Now, did you ever think for one second, nobody’s gonna listen to me. I’m just this I’m just this kid. I don’t have like hardly any experience. I don’t know what’s going on. Like this whole imposter syndrome. I could just see so many people out there thinking of themselves, man. I got this great idea, but nobody’s gonna listen to me.

Cliff Duvernois: So I’m not gonna say anything, but you wrote down a business. And sat down with the owner and then he greenlighted this, I mean, did, did any of that like ever run through your mind, like at all? Or did you just said I’m doing it

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: know, I think it’s, I don’t know. Maybe it’s the mal cheki in me, the, the, my, my Michigan family. And maybe that’s something I got from them, but no, I had all the confidence in the world that. You know, even if he didn’t take it, it wasn’t a waste of time because to me, it helped me really even understand my customer at the time, even more my customer being, the customer of the business, but it was, yeah, I didn’t yeah, I’m sure that I had a little bit of thought of, Hey, he might not go for this.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And it was a lot of time wasted, but I was pretty confident and.

Cliff Duvernois: up.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: It ended up working out great. And I mean, I had a great career there and still keep in contact with those guys. And I think it was, because of that relationship of, not being scared and trying to do what’s best for their company.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful love it. So you’ve created ink addict and that business is doing well. And you finally get to a point where you’re thinking we’re gonna sell this business. Why in the world would you think about selling a successful business? So.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: You know what happened with ink addict? We loved it. It was a great opportunity to make so many awesome connections and, and really grew it. We were, our company was distributed all over the world. And, and it was pretty cool. Like I could be anywhere and see somebody walking down the road with an in addict shirt on or hat or something.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And, even still to this day, I see people walking around with it, which is I, when you sit back and think about it’s pretty cool, but in the end we started to, we found more passion. In helping others than we did to try to grow our brand. And for me that’s big and we grew something big.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We knew that, but what happened through, I guess, just the evolution of that. Companies started to come to us and say, we’ve seen what, you’ve, what you’ve done with ink addict. Can you help us to build our brands? The festivals, the, I mean, this was before affiliate marketing was a thing. We had tattoo artists that were affiliates and models and you name it out there, spreading our word, spreading the word of our brand.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: What we did after a while? Well, first of all, we started to say no to these companies that came to us and we want, we’re just focusing on growing ink addict. But after a while, we really started to realize that our passion actually is in growing something and why can’t we help others grow their brands?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so we started to take on, you know, one company here, one company there and started to see some really big success with it. In the end, we made a decision back in 2019 when in addict was doing well, but wasn’t at the height of where it was. And a portion of that was because we had started to put this all this time into this other business Woodward movement and helping others.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We made the decision to put it up for sale and just see, you know, if we could sell it and. We had interest, we had a lot of interest of people wanting us to stay on. But in the end we didn’t wanna stay on, we wanted to take Woodward movement and put everything we had into it and help other brands grow.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And, it did what in addict did sell in 2020. And we scaled Woodward movement to a, a level that’s already been greater than what ink addict was. And and to be honest, We’re just getting our feet wet. It’s just a start. So I’m really excited to see, how far we can grow Woodward movement.

Cliff Duvernois: And it’s a very common thing by the way. Usually when you sell a business that they want the owners to stay on, cuz they don’t wanna lose that momentum of the company and moving forward. So they’re like, Hey, we’ll pay you a very generous salary. Please stay with the company.

Cliff Duvernois: So for you to turn that down is a little bit of a rarity. For

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We knew what we wanted and we, you know, it’s one of the things that I try to help other business owners to understand that in the end, if you’re passionate about what you’re doing and you have a good model and you’re happy sky’s the limit. And for us, we knew what was gonna make us happy. And that was being able to put our focus into one thing and grow it and helping others to, to really grow their brands.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We didn’t need to be the face of the brand. We didn’t need to have our own brand. It was more, let us be the brand behind your brand and help you grow it. And to us that really. Hit home and was something we could get behind. And, you know, I, I absolutely love working with every one of my clients and everybody that comes through our company and seeing, you know, where we take them from where they started to, you know, that, that stage of growth that they can obtain by just getting out and understanding their community branding and marketing themselves properly through apparel.

Cliff Duvernois: So now it’s 2020 and you have sold off ink addict. Woodward movement is growing. The same person would say, let’s stay here and build this, but you put your family in an RV. it said we’re mobile now. And you have been mobile ever since. Why or why did you decide to do that?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: That’s a great question. Um, and yes, something that I get asked often, you know, again, it comes down to doing what makes you happy? I, I left the west coast, went to Michigan, love Michigan. And for a long time, I’ve wanted to move back out west, you know, for, for me, for my family. And maybe it’s because we grew up in a huge family that was always close and tight knit for me, it was raising my children next to their cousins.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And, you know, being next to my brother and his kids and sister and their kids and the rest of my family and siblings are in Las Vegas still. So that’s a very quick drive where, you know, Michigan is, is a long flight. So our, our idea. Even before Inca sold was we were gonna move out west and I was gonna start a vision of Woodward movement in salt lake.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so that was the plan. But in the meantime, we were gonna travel for three months and this, by the way, I wanna take a step back. This wasn’t just a decision that I was like, Hey, I’m going with it. For me, fortunately, my business partner, Nathan, and I have a great relationship and we lean on each other.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And for me to do what I’ve done the last two years for me to even, you know, think in my mind that this was an option, you know, there was, there was conversation and there was, there was a commitment that, you know, Nathan made to me and, you know, I owe it to him that when I get back to salt lake to really, you know, move forward and, and grow this thing to another level.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: So. That was just taking a step back on that. But, you know, the fact of moving to salt lake was to be close to my cousin or my brother and sister and family. And, you know, having the cousins grow up together, what happened was, you know, COVID hit, right? So a three month, a three month trip. That had been on the, you know, on the books and started to think about, ended up turning into.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Okay, well, instead of just going three months, like why don’t we just hit the road and go for a year? And my wife, Megan, she’s, you know, she’s usually not the risk taker of the family. She’s usually not the one that wants to. You know, do, do things that are out of the norm. And she worked for a, a software company for a while and, and done really well and, um, grown with ’em and was kind of burned out.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And she was like, Hey, I need this time to reflect and, you know, find my own self. And so we decided to go for a year and. After about nine months, we, this is the best experience we could ever imagine. And our family grew so tight knit together. And you know, our, our kids today, it’s like, I’m thinking about soon.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We might be, we’re gonna move to salt lake. And after, you know, two years on the road and it’s like sad to think my kids are gonna go to school and be away from me all day. So, um, what a transformation, but yeah, it’s been, it’s been an incredible experience.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. And, and I do gotta say this because you brought this up earlier. on top of just taking your whole family mobile, which is an experience in and of itself, but you did it right in the face of COVID, right? I mean, there’s people that were even scared to leave their homes. You’re like, we’re on the road, you know, here we go.

Cliff Duvernois: I. Was there any thought or consideration about, you know, how that was gonna impact your family or was it just, you know, we’ll deal with it. If that comes up. I mean, like you were talking about how your, your wife isn’t a risk taker. So obviously the COVID thing was a part of the conversation, but you chose to, you chose to, I don’t wanna say ignore it, but you didn’t let it dictate how you guys were living your life.

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: know it. Yeah. I think you kind of have to weigh the risks and, and we felt at the time that, you know, after doing research, it wasn’t just, Hey, let’s go. Um, you know, that’s another thing about my wife. She’s very, uh, she does a lot of research and is, is very she’s. She plans a lot. So, you know, we knew that RV parks.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: They’re they’re pretty safe when it comes to, you know, you could go and you could park and you can be next to people, but you don’t have to interact with them. Or, you know, you could just keep yourself and explore and live in outdoors. And, you know, so we were, we were looking at that as. It’s not gonna be a, we don’t have to go to big cities and, you know, we could go wherever we want and we could do whatever we want based on, you know, where COVID goes.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And, you know, there was times where you’d go to a state that you there wasn’t, you know, you had to have masks and you couldn’t go into places. And, and there was other states that were wide open, you know? And so even that was kind of a. Kind of a weird thing of, of on the road of understanding, like, okay, what, how are we, how are we gonna handle the situation here?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: So, um, yeah, that was an interesting factor, but we didn’t let it hold us down. You know, it was kind of go out and just make things happen.

Cliff Duvernois: Love it. Absolutely love it. And the next question I got for you is with regards to Woodward movement. Uh, cause I know that you guys design merchandise and apparel, you help you help companies. You build their brand. I guess my overall question to you because it sounds like you’re just somebody who, you know, you’re born in, in, uh, Las Vegas.

Cliff Duvernois: You spent time in Michigan, you’re thinking about, you know, when the, when the show is over, you’re going to settle down in salt lake city. So you’ve been everywhere. Why was it important to start Woodward in Michigan? I mean, you could literally like start it anywhere. You could have farmed it out to any other state on the planet or for that matter, any other country and, you know, just had your apparel made and shipped here and then off your customers, but why was it important that it be in Michigan and hiring people in Michigan?

Cliff Duvernois: Customers want

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: We love Michigan. Um, my business partner was born and raised Mount Clemons. Um, I have a lot of roots still in Michigan. Absolutely love Michigan. Uh, when we started Woodward movement, Inc addict was still going strong in Michigan. At that point, like I said, we weren’t even thinking about selling it. We just knew that this was something that a lot of customers or people were coming to us, um, and wanting us to start.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so it kind of happened naturally. And, you know, we, we have a building right on, uh, eight and a half in Woodward and Ferndale Marshall and Woodward. So. It was kind of like that just natural progression and, and decided, Hey, like, I mean, it wasn’t even a thought of doing anything else. It wasn’t until I, I really wanted to get my, raise my kids next to their cousins and, um, you know, missed the out out west period that there was conversation of, of even opening up another division.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: So from the start, it was always going to be a business in Michigan.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. And I do wanna ask this question. How many employees does Woodward have? Right now,

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: You know, right now we have multiple, a couple employees. We have, uh, a lot of contractors. Um, but we are in a stage right now that we’re looking to start hiring more and more, um, and start working with more and more contractors. But, uh, you know, we’re, we’re, we’ll be growing with employees in both. You know, the out west, uh, salt lake location and Michigan location.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. Love it. And you know, with all these people that you’ve got working for you, and, you know, you’re out talking to customers, you’re out talking to, you know, new customers and everything else with your mobile lifestyle. How do you make sure that everything just, you know, keeps moving forward? You know, that the, that the wheels aren’t coming off the cart.

Cliff Duvernois: So to.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: have an awesome team back home and that’s, you know, again, it comes to that partnership thing and, and where I’ve stepped back. From working as long as I used to. And as much as I used to, and I’m really enjoying this time with my family, my business partner stepped up more than ever. And, and you know, him and our team in Michigan and our support staff, like they’re, they’re continuing to grow and, and really do well in, you know, certain niches.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: So, um, you know, that’s, I would say that’s the biggest contributing factor. Uh, I’d like to think on the road, I’ve, I’ve helped a little bit, but yeah, our team, our team of Michigan’s just crushing it. Right.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. Absolutely love it. And I do wanna explore this topic because we are on a podcast, but you started your own podcast. Why or why would you, would you curse yourself with that level of work?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: You know, it’s funny because when we were, when we were at, in addict and, and growing, we never. We, we own the brand and we, I traveled all over the place and I was kind of the face of the company. But at that same time, I never put myself out there publicly as the face of the company or, um, as Nathan and I really giving our story out there. And I think that was a mistake. And I think, you know, looking back at that, I realized that in order you can have a successful company, but the companies that are. Really doing it well from my point of view, are the people that the ownership or, you know, large, uh, exec level employees. Like they have a voice they’re in front they’re, they’re making a difference.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so, you know, a passion of mine is to help people just like it is to help brands and. I thought to myself, how can I most effectively help others start a business? Or how can I help others start a brand? And I have people coming to me all the time, wanting one-on-one coaching, or, you know, wanting advice on how to take their business to the next level.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And quite frankly, I wish I had a million hours in the day, but I don’t. And so the podcast to me was a way to give back and a way to, you know, interview other awesome entrepreneurs out there who have done way more than I have and, and learn about, you know, ask them about their experience, ask them about, you know, what, what helped and what didn’t help in their growth.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And, you know, hopefully others can listen and learn from that. And it’s not, , it’s more of a time commitment than I thought. And I know you. You could, uh, you know, say the same. I know, uh, you know, it’s worth it. It’s worth it to me. And, and I look forward to continuing to grow it. And I think we are, we’re about 18 episodes launched now and interviewed people from all over this country.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And it’s been incredible, an incredible experience, but yeah, I started it just, just to try to give back and, you know, hopefully people can learn from it.

Cliff Duvernois: beautiful. I love that. And let me say right now, congratulations on making it to episode 18. When most podcasts don’t even make it past eight. So that right there. Yeah. Or that right there in and of itself is an accomplishment. Heard that there’s some podcast service out there that when you publish more than 10 episodes, they actually send you a certificate of accomplishment.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Wow.

Cliff Duvernois: I didn’t know that

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: that, listen, it doesn’t mean that there’s any listeners, but Hey, they’re out there.

Cliff Duvernois: Well, they’ll find you, Jim, I’m sure that they will. I’m sure they will. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s nice. Cuz I know that with your business experience that you have and plus with you inviting, you know, people on here that you can learn from. You know, your market’s gonna find you, not everybody is starting a business.

Cliff Duvernois: There’s a lot of people out there that have been in the business for a while, and we need those types of podcasts where we can talk to the next level entrepreneur and, you know, hear their stories. I got a, a good friend of mine, Pete, and he and I were talking and he said, I can’t find a good business podcast, cuz they’re all about starting a good business.

Cliff Duvernois: I’ve been in business for 20 years, you know? And so those types of podcasts are needed. That’s

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Yeah. And that’s where, you know, part of it, I don’t just focus on the starting a business. The other part is building the brand. And for someone like that, like that’s the important part is, you know, fine tuning your, your company to speak to your audience that you wanna speak to. And that’s branding. And so, you know, I love, I’m very passionate about that and that’s what Woodward movement was built on.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: And so we hope to continue to grow in that and help as many business owners as we can.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. Absolutely love it. Jim, if somebody’s listening to this podcast right now and they want to connect with you or follow you online, or your adventures, uh, maybe you can listen to your podcast. Uh, where can they find you?

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: You know, if you’re looking for, if your new business startup, uh, if you’re looking to grow your brand and you wanna just listen to the podcast, it’s, it’s remote. or just on any of the major, uh, channels, Spotify, apple, whatever it might be. It’s just remote start podcast. Um, other than that, if, if you have a business, you want promotional merchandise, clothing, any of the above branding help, um, check us out at Woodward movement.

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Dot com and, uh, there’s, there’s a form on there to fill out and I’d be happy to have a consultation for free and just give you some advice on, on starting your business or growing your brand or whatever that might be.

Cliff Duvernois: Beautiful. And for our audience, we will make sure to have all of those links in the show notes down below Jim, it’s been awesome having you on the podcast today. And I would actually like to extend an invitation for you to come back, uh, at some point, cause I want to get an update on, you know, the mobile lifestyle and if you settle down and how Woodward’s moving.

Cliff Duvernois: So, uh, thanks again for being on the podcast. Yes,

Jim Doyon, Woodward Movement: Cliff. I love, I love the invite. Thank you. I take it right now is yes, let’s do it. And, uh, it’s been an honor, man. Thank you so much. I, I, I really, really appreciate it and I, I hope your audience was able to take away a few, little bit of value from this.