Cliff Duvernois: [00:00:00] hello everyone. And welcome to the show. My name is Cliff DuVernois your host. And today we are talking to the president elect soon to be president, but the president elect of the Michigan snowmobile and ORV association, that would be John. Newman, John, how are you?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:00:17] Thank you for having me.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:00:19] Great. Thanks for taking the time to be on the podcast today. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about where you’re from and where you grew up.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:00:25] Well, I grew up in the little town of South Lyon. About 20 minutes. And North to South Lyon schools.
Graduated from there, went to the, Police Academy. Got certified, got a degree in criminal justice. And started on my career.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:00:40] Excellent. And I got to ask the question. What, what got you into snowmobiling in the first place?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:00:47] Well, when I was really young. It was about three. My father brought home in 1972. Two 92 and where we lived was quite rule. So, you know, we could ride it just about anywhere, back in the early seventies. And my dad’s John Newman junior. And his brother, bill Newman was pretty close to us and he also bought a call snowmobiles at the same time.
And I actually started working for a dealership and was Suzuki’s and snow, Jess. In the 70s. And, My dad did construction concrete work for a small company and saw the lion. And was laid off in the winter. So a lot of times we drive over from our house to my uncle’s house. And then from my uncle’s house over to my grandfather, John Newman senior’s house, he had a large farm in.
The adults would let the kids. Kind of right around in the little area that where they can keep an eye on us. Sit and talk and usually split firewood for the house or do some chores around the farm. While we played a little bit, when we were young. So it was kind of some of my greatest memories or some will be only with my dad.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:01:53] Excellent. And, I almost think it’s a requirement in Michigan that, if you’re gonna grow up here, you got to get some exposure to snowmobiling.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:02:00] Well, I think it kind of goes along with. Boating. And every time you talk to voters, they say how fast the summer goes. And then a lot of people talk about how slow the winter goes. Well, if you don’t have a wintertime activity that you are enthusiastic about it, it seems like you take first. It takes forever.
Now if you were a snowmobile or a skier or, you know, cross-country something along those lines. You’d realize how fast the winter can go when there was something out there that you enjoy it.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:02:26] Yeah. That’s excellent. Absolutely love that. So talk to us a little bit about the, the, the origin of the Michigan. Some will be all association. What is, what was its purpose idea who decided to, to put this organization together?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:02:41] For that we’d have to go back to a mom about 40 years when you know, snowmobiling was in its early years. And there were three main associations in the state of Michigan. There was the Michigan association of recreational snowmobilers, which was Mars. There was the Michigan international snowmobile association.
And there was the upper peninsula. Snowmobile association, Asian. M UPSA, they all kinda had their own thing. They all had different ideas. and it was difficult for the DNR at the time to figure out where to. Where to put their efforts. So they asked that one association. Shows in because of the mission.
Initial is so much stolen Guild association obviously was geared towards the upper peninsula where most of the snow is, whereas the a. Michigan international, association is. It was more for worse. Old wheels race and do R D. You know, recreation in design, where they are research and development, or at least figure out how to make things work better.
And martyrs was basically for the populated areas where people more of the snowmobilers live because. Most a lot of the registered On wheels obviously are closer to your main, you know, pubs, Detroit, that kind of thing.
So the DNR wanted one person to kind of one group to kind of give them guidance on how to do things. So in June of 82, Was incorporated. In September. I’m. I started taking memberships. in January of 83. Missile and monitors agreed to transfer all their stuff into the MSA. In February, we, February of 83, we held our first general membership meeting with 232 members in the group.
And then in March of 83, the Michigan upper peninsula. Association. Don’t join. So all three of them were now under one umbrella.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:04:35] Wow. Very nice. And how did you get involved with the association?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:04:40] Well for a few years. I went and established my career. I’ve spent 30 years in law enforcement as a police officer. and through that, I was actually able to get a good job. Time to buy my own snowmobile also in, 94. I went out and bought me. On new Skidoo, six 70 and I got back into snowmobiling. My,
My uncle had bought a cabin up in, Meredith to just solve the Holton leg.
We would go up there when I was little. So once I got the new snowmobile, I was able to go back up there and start writing. Well, once I got into riding, they started doing a snowmobile show in Novi. So when I was at the snowmobile show in, 96. I saw a booth for the Michigan snowmobile association was what it was called at the time.
And I looked over some information and I, and I joined and got a one-year membership and kind of joined in. Find out what they were about. And then in 97, At the snow show, I signed up as a life member and I’ve been a life member Roma. My store of us. Since since 1997.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:05:43] Nice. Excellent. And. Why, why did you decide to, take a really an active role and, and becoming like the, now the president elect, but your vice president, but now president elect.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:05:56] Well, I really didn’t take an active role. quickly because. A wife and three kids came along and.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:06:03] Sure thing.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:06:04] That complicates your free time obviously, and things. You know, Go. you know, Your, your life becomes someone else’s and that you’ve got three kids to get to baseball and football and lacrosse and soccer. You know, whatever else is going on, but I never lost my love of snowmobiling. I actually was fortunate enough to meet my wife out in the middle of Lake st. Clair in August when she came over and said that the jet skis that we had there were kind of like snowmobiles on the water.
So my wife was a very big part of it and that she loved to write too. And she was quite happy, snowmobile and she’s still to this day, loves the snowmobile as you, my kids. so. It just kind of evolved from there. And then once my, my last child was born and things got more comfortable, I want to know.
To give back to the organization into snowmobiling as a whole. So, I joined, joined a small group called the snowman, which was founded by one of the Michigan snowmobile association, founding members. Jim do. and became a snowmobile safety instructor. So I wouldn’t teach kids and adults a snowmobile safety.
From all over. And, you know, the, the business side of it interests me to an extent, but I just didn’t have the free time. then in 2018, I retired. From law enforcement. And, obviously I had a little bit more free time and, and got much more involved. Got on the board of directors, learn more about what the organization was doing.
ran for vice president last year and was elected vice president. And this year ran for president. It’s a lot more than people know trails. Just don’t. You know, all appear. It takes a lot of work to get them there.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:07:49] And that is actually because my next question was going to lead into, what are the. You know, what, what role does, does, does the association play in snowmobiling and Michigan?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:08:01] Well, we’re kind of multifaceted in that we have quite a few different things going. The biggest thing that we do. Is. snowmobiling is a self-funded. A group. So in order to snowmobile every year, you have to buy a snowmobile permit this year. It’s $48. That money goes into a fund. last year was a little over $10 million. That was in the fund.
In the department of natural resources for Michigan manages the fund. So all the money goes into them. And then they Dole it out to the 68 plan sponsors that are in Michigan and then signed a contract with a DNR. To maintain the trail. So we help, Facilitate any issues that are going, if there’s a problem.
We can step in and try to work as a mediator between the club and the DNR. Try to get these things solved. We do a lot of work, advising the DNR on, you know, things because obviously the DNR, while they administer the programs, they’re not all experts on snowmobiling. Neither are we. We as consumers of it, you know, we, we have a better idea.
Sometimes. What we need to make it. We only want the best trails in the world. Hands down. We want to make sure that our, our trails are better than anyone else’s.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:09:14] Yeah.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:09:15] it brings people to Michigan. So you can see pure Michigan. You can see all the beauty and in a lot of the, Parks in scenic sites that you see in Michigan. Are open in the winter and they’re beautiful when covered in a blanket of white. You know, they’re, they’re, they’re magnificent. It’s just,
A gorgeous thing to see, to go to kitchen Kibby are minors castle, or to climbing on falls in the winter and see what it looks like. And if you go in the winter, typically you have much less of a crowd to deal with. You know, so you can see all these beautiful sights and go to all these beautiful places.
and we just try to help. Make sure that everything gets taken care of.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:09:57] That’s excellent. And you know, you bring up a good point when you talk about the people that, you know, obviously there’s a lot of people in Michigan. Who are really big into snowmobiling, but now you’re talking about people from other States coming to Michigan, to snowmobile as well. talk to us a little bit about the, the economic impact that that has on the state.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:10:18] So we’ll be only has, has a huge economic impact in the state. In that we’re all user funded. So the state doesn’t spend any money. What gets the benefits of, you know, while administering the $10 million program, snowmobiling generates about a billion dollars in revenue. In all. And again, and almost 8,500 full-time year round jobs.
Are directly from the snowmobile program. and more importantly, out of that, all of that, about 37%, so $370 million. Is generated yearly. My out-of-state visitors. That come to pure Michigan to snowmobile. Because we have one of the best interconnected Mark room brush and clean. Snowmobile trails around and that’s all do our, our 68 grand sponsors.
Ronald volunteers. I volunteer all my time and energy into this. And we have people that are in these clubs that volunteer hundreds of hours. for people they’ve never met to make sure that trail is the best trail that it could be so that when people come to their area, then when awesome experience.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:11:24] And I, and I loved that. And the more I talked to two people at Michigan, the board of the word experience pops up, and that is such a great word. So, that is impressive. $1 billion. A year and that’s just from, that’s just from snowmobile. We haven’t even really talked about the RV part yet.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:11:41] The orb part has exploded. I mean, with Colby and so many people are looking for something new to do and experience and get out into the outdoors and, you know, As snowmobilers. Years. We’ve pretty much been self distancing for a long time. So I’m social distancing happens on us. You know what you’re one person typically on a snowmobile or, you know, one or two people on a, on a quad or a couple of.
People in a side by side. You’re automatically socially distancing. You get out into that fresh air. In Michigan Siena of big reason, the research it’s not just in, ATV thing and that kind of thing, but fishing licenses are up. Hunting licenses were up. The sheers camping was. This year because people want to be outside.
in this has given us an opportunity, to get people out there to explore. I mean, Michigan has so much to offer people. you know, it’s just a beautiful state. We’re very lucky. For where we live in, what we had and what we’re able to do here.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:12:39] Yeah, that is excellent. And talk to us a little bit about, because, you know, I know this is an association and people can join.
The association, but w by really what are, what are like the, the, the, the benefits of joining the association?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:12:54] Well, there’s several, you know, our, our, our memberships are $35 a year that gets you a magazine. we have a website and we have some clothing. But all of our, you. W we’re we’re over 10,000 members right now. in the, in the association. And that’s the 10,000 volunteers. You know, All our people are volunteers. We have one paid executive director. We have a part-time office person and that’s it.
And we do everything we do with that. When, when we go do something. You know, we typically do it. On our dime. We pay for everything. What people get is you get a great trail system. You get a watch. Shop for not only your trails, but your money. We have a full-time legislator in Lansing.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:13:39] Oh, wow.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:13:39] left. So, so we, we work on right now are working on several bills. we’re trying to decriminalize.
In Michigan. Registration violations or a misdemeanor. So. You have to have a registration sticker on your snowmobile and they want it in certain spots. Well, if you put it in the wrong spot, And you’ve written. That’s a misdemeanor misdemeanor could follow your own everywhere. So we’re working with our legislators to try to get that changed because it’s a simple mistake.
and it shouldn’t be a misdemeanor. You know, I mean, it’s just there there’s directions on there, but people make mistakes. we do a legislative ride yearly where we take a legislators out in many of them have never experienced snowmobiling.
So we get them out on a snowmobile and the members have paid for us to get it. Helmets, boots, bibs, jackets, gloves. Total furs had gear so that we can take these people out in their comfortable and they can understand what we’re about. And a lot of times we’ll work that legislative or legislative right in with maybe.
A meeting for them with their constituents or something so they can see, I mean, you know, The money that is putting into. The consumer sends is usually small mom and pop. Small businesses in Michigan that right now, or are struggling very hard in times, restaurants, bars, hotels, you know, These are all big chain stores.
A lot of them are small businesses. That support families and we help them do that. We help them have a great year. I mean, You know, we, we do a short seasons. Your snowmobile trail permit and gets you access to the trails. From December 1st to March 31st. So on a four month period, we do all this and, you know, we, we try to help work with our legislators. We try to help work with the DNR.
And being a member helps us do those things. It gives us the ability to do that stuff.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:15:36] And I know that you mentioned before about the trail system. So, you know, as someone who’s a little bit ignorant about this is, is the trail systems, is that all public land?
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:15:46] No, some of it’s public, some of it’s describing it. it’s a, it’s a pretty unique system in basically that was all put in because. We wanted a trail system that would take us to things, you know, right now most of the ORV system, you kind of ride in circles. So we want to try to get the orb system more like the snowmobile system where you can go ride to a restaurant or a hotel, or, you know, some, some businesses.
Instead of just a small loop wishes. What some of them have we want to expand it. The way the ORV system is set up. There’s not a lot of, Legislative stuff. Is taking place. The snowmobile program, or we can cover liability insurance for a landowner. If he loves the trail. Go through his, through his land. it takes a lot of equipment. You know, we use large tractors, to the room and some of the places in the key when I’ll really see.
300, 300, 400 inches of snow a year. Well, they have to have tanks, tank tracks, you know, it has to be a tracked vehicle. The snow is so deep. And then the key one, all the key one. Big room, like a 200 miles. We have 6,500 miles of Mark’s groomed, interconnecting snowmobile trails in the state of Michigan.
You know, you can go all the way. I have many times gone across the entire UPA. I know people that have gone across the lower start at the bottom and work their way all the way up to the bridge. The bridge authority has a system where you can call them and they’ll send a van and a trailer or a truck and a trailer, depending on what you need. And they’ll pull you across the Mackinaw bridge to the other side.
And then you can explore the whole ups.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:17:17] That is sweet Never even knew that existed before. That’s cool.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:17:21] The other cool thing along those lines is that, you know, You’ve been to Drummond Island. I hole.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:17:26] Aye. We’ll say yes, but no.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:17:29] you can, you can take and drive your snowmobile, aligned to a boat, the ferry and ferry over to Drummond Island and unload, and they have snowmobile trails over there that you can ride.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:17:38] Oh, that would be fun.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:17:40] Which will exactly, which will take you to restaurants and hotels and bars, gas stations on the Island. You know, so. It’s. In there, there are grand sponsor through the DNR and. All that stuff is done through the snowmobile program. Well, we continue to try to legislate and. Every day, we try to make the program better every minute.
you know, we, we, we try to strive to make your experience on motorized recreation in Michigan. The best it can be.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:18:13] And that’s awesome. And I got to get, and I just want to circle back to something here real quick. Cause I know that we’re talking about how, you know, a lot of, a lot of small businesses right now are struggling and especially. You know, at the time of this recording here we are inside of this, epidemic order where, you know, everything’s basically.
You know, closed down for like restaurants and places like that. So I could just imagine. That one. Once, you know, I know snow is already hitting the ground in the UK. But let’s say really start getting some snow on the ground, you know, and you were talking before about the automatic, you know, social distancing because everybody’s on a snowmobile, but I can imagine that these businesses are just chomping at the bit for a snowmobile season to kick into full gear.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:18:53] Well, you, you know, they are. Prep for snowmobile season for many of us. Is a year round thing. a lot of the clubs have already gone and they have brushing and signing parties because they have a contract with the DNR. To maintain that trail and make it safe. And he gets inspected by the DNR to make sure it’s safe for use.
So every year we have to go out there and clear all the brush away, clear all the trees away, make sure that it’s wide enough for the groomer to get through because the groomers are quite large. Make sure it’s a safe snowmobiling experience. There’s a, there’s a Look for the DNR puts out. With, the signage.
You have to have signs off there’s there’s a requirement for every so many signs per mile. 250 fee for a stop sign yet. To stop ahead sign. And all of this is done by volunteers. You know, they start in September and October because once, you know, You know how Michigan is with rifle, firearm, deer season.
We don’t want to be out there and ruin any hunters, heart. so we try to have everything prepped and ready before.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:19:52] John, why don’t you share with us perhaps, maybe three, three little known facts or, or three common misperceptions that people might have about, about the association.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:20:03] Probably the one that we hear somewhat the most is that we take the money out of the programs. We don’t. My sorbet is. Wholly funded by membership. And by donations, we take no money out of the snowmobile or, or V program. We run on a very limited staff. We have one full-time executive director. And then we have a part-time.
Office worker that helps her in the office. So a lot of people think that when they buy that $48 real permitee, it comes to us. That money goes to the DNR and the DNR manages that fund. So it’s wholly upon the DNR we get. If we sell you a snowmobile trail permit through the Mysore office. we get 75.
I’m sorry. Seven 47 cents. As the retail agent and a dollar as the selling agent. Every agent that sells that permit and it gives a dollar, whether it’s a Meyer’s or in Donald’s or anyone, in that we sell the preprinted permits. So we don’t take money out. We don’t write grants to the program to get our expenses covered.
When we go to a meeting or we have a hotel thing, we all pay our own way. Her own gas. We have a meal at our, at our meetings. We pay for the meal though, the association doesn’t pay for the meal. our executive board basically pays their own expenses except the executive director. Who’s a full-time employee.
Other than that we want as much money to go to that summer. We’ll find his weekend. Cause we want the best for rails. We can have.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:21:33] Certainly. And, that’s, that’s really good that basically all the money that the people put in a, it goes right back into the trail system.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:21:40] That’s the goal. the DNR has some administrative fees, but we try to, and we keep track of the fond to make sure that, you know, whereabout the money is going and that is being spent wisely. And then, and then another big misconception. I don’t think it’s really a misconception, but you know, snowmobilers last year that we have the estimates for a raise. Well over $600,000 for charities in Michigan.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:22:04] Oh, nice.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:22:05] You know, And, we have several larger charities for years. We sponsored the Easter seals for women only ride Easter seals helps people with disabilities lead better lives. We’re no longer the main sponsor for that one, because money got tight and we had to step down from that one. if you’re familiar with the words, warriors, words, warriors, you.
It does an annual snowmobile run to raise money and they basically pay for every winter special Olympian. To go do the special Olympics in the winter. Every year. And all that money has been raised by those snowmobilers to do that.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:22:39] Nice. Nice. And what’s the third little, what’s the third misconception.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:22:43] Well, the third misconception is that, you know, we, we all get paid and while our expenses get covered. So I kind of calmed her down all in one. you know, we don’t have a big staff. We don’t have a lot of people. We. We, you know, we’re, we’re small and lean and mean, and we just try to do what we can with what we have.
you know, it would be nice if we had a bigger budget, like, you know, Many years ago before the recession hit and the manufacturers gave, gave. Things, and we can get, you know, we had more money to work with. We don’t have that now and we’ve just adjusted it. our, our treasurer, Mark rancor, or our executive director, Karen Middledorf have done a great job.
Cutting costs wherever we could. To try to keep us, In the red a little bit, so we don’t have to struggle like we have at times. So it’s everybody thinks we’re flushed with money or not. We are not, we, we run on a, on a really tight budget.
In memberships, you know, obviously it would help us. The more members we have, the more money’s there. The more work we can do. So, you know, we, we. That the ATV community comes in. We have gotten many of them. Who’s gotten support from some of them and a lot of what used to be traditional snowmobile.
Clubs have gone over to dual-purpose clubs and having to have joined in and. You know, now do both. No Under which no one saying, however you want to look at it. So it’s a growing. Market.
Cliff Duvernois: [00:24:08] Nice. Excellent. And.
John Newman, Michigan Snowmobile and ORV Association: [00:24:24] Well, that that is an absolutely excellent question. Because for 10 years, we’ve been working in conjunction with the DNR and the legislation to try to get a free snowmobiling weekend. Like you see with fishing and stuff. And this year it will happen. We’re we’re tentatively set for the last weekend in January and be a free snowmobile weekend.
Where anybody can go out there. You don’t need a trail permit and you can ride the trails and check them out. the other thing is that there’s there’s many small mom and pop businesses. that rent snowmobiles. So if you want to say, go up and rent one for a day or a weekend. You could go up there and run a snowmobile for the week. I didn’t try it out. See if it’s for you. See if you like it.
They will also supply you with all the clothing that you need. Bibs jackets, gloves, helmets, wherever you don’t have, they can rent you. So, you know, you get a chance. And they’re going to put you on a newer machine.
You know, Great technology, the technology and the snowmobile, or be industry. Has exploded in recent years. The way that they build these engines. They’re so clean burning now, even the two strokes. It’s not like the old days where you just saw a puff of smoke and people were up. You know, They’re they’re, they’re clean burning snowmobiles. You can start them in your office and let them run all day.
And you don’t have any issues with carbon monoxide, nothing because of the way the motor’s designed. And all the computer systems that they put in them. You know, we also have a big push on for stroke motors. which means. I think they’re up in 2020, 26 emission standards on many soils. Yeah. I mean, you know, The new cost of snowmobiles, probably around 8,000 silver. A couple of hundred bucks, you can get on a snowmobile, go out in everywhere, around there. You know, all of our trails are marked. So, you know what trail you’re on. They have numbers on them. When you get into intersections, they’ll tell you destinations.
You know what city town a lot of them will tell you, you know, what’s available gas, lodging food. you know, and you can go and I’ve, I’ve snowmobiled in a week from st. Ignace over to Drummond Island and stayed in my. Written from Drummond Island up to paradise, stayed a night in paradise over to big Bay and stayed a night, big Bay up to copper Harbor and stayed the night.
Copper Harbor over to a silver city Lake of the clouds and stayed at night and then come back. that’s something that you can do with, because of our trail system, because of all of our volunteers and how hard they work. Many of them may not ever know you, what they’ve put in so much time to make sure you use your enjoyment.
Is at its highest level. It can be.
Well obvi obviously my store, but we have our, we have our website. MSA snow.org. we actually just launched it and updated a new site on Friday. and it explains, it gives you a lot of information. You can check our meeting minutes. You can check our magazine. Now, now we have a. We’ve kind of switched because about two years ago, we went from Michigan stolen mail association to the mission solar wheel and off-road association and included AGVs in our representation.
so our magazine now is, is basically two episodes or two episodes are snow. And two episodes are a little bit of both. So we kind of cover both, both swords. You know, w we can give you not only information on snowmobiling, but on, or mean. the DNR also has an excellent website. Michigan DNR doc.
Dot org. that you can go onto and they they’d call her, you know, They have all aspects, whether it’s snowmobiling, ORV, ATV. very good site to give you kind of updates. You can check your area for a local club. Well over 200 clubs in the, In Michigan. some of them are grooming clubs. Like, you know, we’re 68 grand sponsors are typically all clubs.
And some of them are just social clubs where you can get together with other people and ride.
Well, Normally there are, although we put on there, their snowmobile safety classes, and when you get on the DNR website, There’s actually a section in there. That’ll teach you. That’ll show you where classes are and it’s by County because they’re put on in every County in Michigan, there’s usually, a snowmobile safety class.
A lot of times the snowmobile club in the area we’ll hold one class. The club that I belong to the snowman. So we typically do you want to Wayne open to McComb County? the big issue this year is that with the COVID. the governor has shut down the DNRs. Safety program. for in-person learning, they still offer online learning through their site.
But there’s no in-person learning this year. They did do some hunting stuff late. but they have not allowed ORV or snowmobile classes as of yet this year.
Oh, that’s, that’s not a problem. Anybody that has any questions. They can go onto our website, IMSA, snow.org, and answer or ask any questions. And we will, we’ll kind of give them an answer.