Call of Leadership

The Call of Leadership

Making Tough Decisions with Craig Goslin of the Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club

Craig Goslin, President and Managing Partner of the Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club, talks with us about creating a winning team, culture and ego, and what it was like to shut down an entire league due to Covid-19.

Links from the Episode:

  • Saginaw Spirit Website Here.


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Cliff Duvernois (00:10):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the call of leadership podcast where we interview people from our Michigan community who answered the call of leadership. We’re going to hear their powerful stories and get their advice. Now, today’s guest serves as a board member on numerous business and nonprofits including covenant healthcare, the Saigon riverfront community outreach, the United way. The list goes on and on. Each one of those would prove to be an excellent interview by themselves. But for today I want to talk to our guests because he’s been instrumental not only in entertaining millions of fans, but having an impact in elevating

Cliff Duvernois (00:48):
The sport of hockey. He is thought to be the first American born chairman of the Ontario hockey league board of governors and an executive board member to the 60 team Canadian hockey league. He is the president and managing partner of the Saginaw spirit hockey team. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the show Craig Goslin. Craig, how are you?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (01:11):
I’m great, Cliff. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

Cliff Duvernois (01:13):
No problem. And I know you’re extremely busy and I appreciate the fact that you’re taking time to speak with us today. If you would, tell us a little bit about where you’re from. Where did you grow up?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (01:24):
Well, a home for me was based city. I wrote in based city, went to basically all saints and I’m a, I’m a proud based city native and now live in Freeland.

Cliff Duvernois (01:33):
Excellent. Where did you, where did you go to college? What did you study?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (01:37):
Well, I took summer classes in school. I did not ever get my degree. However, I wouldn’t recommend that for today’s students. But it worked out for me cause I I really got a great education working through the companies that I worked for my early years. I didn’t earn a degree, but I did a study, the people business and I learned a lot from, from a mentor mentors. I always grabbed mentors along my way. I think that’s one of the, one of the keys to any successful enterprise is for the leaders to to have mentors, people that are, are excellent at what they do and and to be able to have access to them, to be able to pick their brains and to to help them along the way. And I’ve, I’ve had five of those mentors growing up and through my, through my career.

Cliff Duvernois (02:17):
Now you mentioned mentors. I’m a big believer in having mentors. Is there some piece of advice from one of your mentors that has really served you well throughout your career?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (02:29):
Yeah. Dick Garber Dick Garber, I, one of my mentors partner a boss, he gave me this bit of advice. He does that with all his partners and people that I’ve worked with is to treat people the way you want to be treated. And if you do those things and you can carry the values of your organization with you and you, and you try to live those values, then you’re going to be successful. And that is something that I think of often. And certainly Dick was instrumental in my development for sure as a professional, as well as a person.

Cliff Duvernois (02:57):
Excellent. And I know you mentioned before that you decided to get into the people business and one could argue that almost every business on the planet is a people business. But when you say a people business, what do you mean by that?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (03:12):
Well, you know what? It’s always been a passion for me. Develop people’s abilities and talents and recognize it, recognize what people are really good at and what they need to work on to develop and work with those individuals to maximize their potential and their in their business and in their life. And that’s why it’s been a passion for me. And if I’ve been good at anything, it’s been recognizing talent and recognizing the areas where individuals have talent but need to develop it. I think that’s one of the keys to a successful businesses is, is number one, you’ve got to have talent and you’ve got to have character, good people. But you also gotta be able to recognize when somebody has talented certain area that needs to be developed. And that’s one of the things that’s missing in today’s I think in today’s business world is, is the, the undeveloped untapped potential inside of people. And that’s what I really enjoy doing. That’s where, that’s where I feel that I’ve been effective in the people business.

Cliff Duvernois (04:02):
Excellent. And I know we’re going to dive a little bit more into that later on in the interview, but I want to take a step back first cause I got so many hockey questions to ask you, but before we get into, yeah, before we get into that, what, what business were you in before you jumped into the hockey world?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (04:20):
I was a regional sales manager as well as a territory sales and for a group of manufacturer called Hilti reconstruction tool manufacturer. I had a territory also managed a group of people and it was a, it was an outstanding experience for me cause it was a, it was a direct manufacturer from the facility to the end user. So I had over 450 clients that I had to keep happy as well as managing a group of salespeople. And that certainly was, was a great experience for me and they really taught me a lot and it helped you by the way, it’s an outstanding company in terms of the way they train their management and their staff. And one of the theories that they brought to the, to the table that really stuck with me as a group, as a theory by Ken Blanchard called Gung Ho. And if you’ve ever heard of Gung Ho read the book Gung Ho if the Ken Blanchard study and it’s really about developing people in business healthier, who’s been a Gung Ho and I spent a very instrumental part of, certainly the way I operate business

Cliff Duvernois (05:13):
Gung-Ho is now on my list of books to read. So thank you for that.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (05:18):
Yeah, he’d gotten home in a nutshell. I’ll give you the nutshell. Basically it’s, it’s recognizing that people’s work is worthwhile within your organization and that everybody in the organization has, has a say in the decisions of the company doing industries through strategic planning or through business management of the company, allowing staff members, employees, everybody to be involved in the decisions of a company. So it’s again, it’s worthwhile work. Everybody’s job is worthwhile. Everybody, everybody’s role is important and recognized as such. And then the second part of that of course is, is what I just described to you in that. And then the third part is cheering each other on somebody does something well, continue to cheer them on, encourage them, develop them, show them the areas that they need to improve. And then tyramine when they do things really well, if you do those things, that’s a Gung Ho environment. That’s a Gung Ho company and those are companies that do those things. We’ll get results beyond the typical, we certainly have that with the Saginaw spirit with the Garber management group.

Cliff Duvernois (06:12):
Yeah. You bring up an interesting point because I’ve seen the exact opposite of this happen where it almost seems like if there is a success in the organization, like if somebody did something that was, you know, really phenomenal, whether it’s, you know, close a big deal or they really went above and beyond taking care of a customer, it almost seems like there’s like a, maybe a little bit of a jealousy or resentment in the reaction that other people have inside of that company. Do you think that’s directly related to the culture?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (06:39):
I do. The culture, you hit the nail on the head. There is the culture. It’s the leadership. We’re talking about leadership here today. It’s the leadership in the, in the, in the culture that will ensure that, that th that the success of the individuals become the success of the team. And that’s a skill. It’s a skill and it’s a commitment. Cause you know what gets in the waitlist is egos. Egos are one of the biggest detrimental elements of, of the, of the loss of business organizations. And and you got to check your ego at the door. Garber says it all the time as well. There’s a number of Ken Hollins, another one of my mentors, Ken is always checked his ego at the door. He mentions that all the time. You know, those are, those are success. You know, success leaves clues. And when you see people that are real successful, one of the, one of the things I’ve noticed is that the real successful people, not just in financial success but also with life, they’ve learned how to manage their ego. And, and part of what you’re talking about with that is it’s being able to have the leadership at the top of companies to be able to make sure that they check the Regal and to make sure they give credit where credit is due and encourage and develop. And that’s a, that’s a big part of law.

Cliff Duvernois (07:40):
Yeah. And I’m glad that you brought that out because I remember early on in my career that my ego was always my worst enemy. And it took me years before I finally figured that out. And once I was able to start putting my ego into check, then I really started making forward advances. Like I wouldn’t believe so I’m, I’m grateful that you pointed that out.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (08:00):
You’re dead on and I, you know what, we all have an ego eye. I went through the same process. You did almost do it to you and what you described. Once I figured it out, once the dots connected, it was, it was like a whole different level of results. The results started coming like, like, like Niagara falls and that’s where we’re companies, when they, and individuals, when they do those plays, we’ll certainly see better results.

Cliff Duvernois (08:21):
Yes, definitely. What was it that drew you to the sport of hockey?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (08:26):
Well, I played basketball growing up. I always loved sports. And then my step son, Brent Wolgast, I came into his life when he was five years old and he loved the game of hockey and I hadn’t had any experience other than just watching the Redwings plant. And I enjoyed the game, but I was, I was a bystander for the most part, just enjoying watching the game. Didn’t know a ton about the game. And then I got involved with my substance steps on Brent and I just fell in love with the game of hockey. I would say the way now, what was I doing playing basketball, playing hockey, what a great sport the game is. It’s the best part on the planet now. Once you get involved in it. That’s why you see so many people that are so passionate about the game of hockey. Just such a wonderful sport and it teaches so many life lessons about teamwork and about, about the, you know, you only can win and hockey as a team, you can’t, individuals can’t win games. Teams win games. Very similar in business that the game of hockey really grabbed me when my steps on Brent played it and I got involved. I said, you know what, I absolutely love this. Of course then you know, the, the, the element of bringing the OHL, the sagging, our, the Garber was certainly a big part of of that as well.

Cliff Duvernois (09:30):
How did you get involved with the second Oz spirit hockey team?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (09:33):
Well, Dick Garber and I have been friends since 1983 we were discussing some elements on a golf course and he mentioned to me that he was going to be looking at buying an Ontario hockey league franchise and bring it out here to Saginaw it. And it kind of just, when I was at a point in my career looking at potentially for a for a change, and I mentioned it to him that Hey, listen, I’d be interested in working with you, but one thing led to the other and I came to work for Dick. And then shortly thereafter he asked me to be a partner of the Saginaw spirit. So that’s kind of how I got involved. And then one thing led to the other. I made my way through the hockey circles.

Cliff Duvernois (10:06):
What is it that you value most about the culture of the Ontario hockey league?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (10:11):
The people, the quality of the people, the quality of owners, the owners care an incredible amount about the development of their players and of their staff. So they’re very stringent requirements to be an owner in our league. And we have very successful business people that are owners in our league. And, and if you talk about a high egos we get, we deal with that cause these are, these are very successful business people that own these teams but they’re really good people. And, and the league league management led by commissioner David Branch second to none. You know, I read something here a couple months ago. Dave branch is one of the top five influencers in the game of hockey. He’s been had an incredible influence on the game itself. Getting fighting on the game to a certain extent. I’m, you’re still fighting in the game but it is you as you watch the game now it is, it’s really being reduced and the skill is taken over to, to be able to have player that has tremendous scale that can scape like like the wind has great hands, can put the puck in the net from any different angle or direction.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (11:09):
Those are the things the fans are gonna see in the game. And they’re seeing more of that all the time. And Dave Brandt was the, was the innovator of that. And getting the holding and the clutching and the grabbing out of the game that you used to see when we had the big thugs and the fighting going on that you saw back, you know, 10 12 years ago.

Cliff Duvernois (11:24):
Yeah. That’s awesome. And I know that you mentioned before about the, there’s, there’s a tendency for these owners probably even the players too when they come in that they have these enormous egos. So if you, you know, for, for our audience out there, this would be a good question. When you come across somebody who has an ego and you see that potentially that ego could be damaging either to culture or to the team, what are some of the ways that that you, you, you use to diffuse the ego situation?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (11:56):
That is a great question. And, and I run across that often and the best way to manage that is asking questions back to that individual regarding their position and what they feel that can do to help the team. Well, are you in this for the team or you’re doing it for yourself? That’s a great question. If you’re asked for yourself, and this may be the wrong thing for you, right? Bottom line, the way we’re operating our organization, it’s not about ourselves, it’s about the betterment of our organization. And I would hope that you would be onboard with that. I mean, how do you feel about that? And when you ask them that question at first, they may come back with, I don’t get that kind of response. But if you continue to work with an individual over time, the dots will likely connect with that individual that he listen, it’s not about me, it’s about the team and it’s about the organization. It’s about the whole success of the whole. That’s the success of the individual. And if leadership at the top sends that message through and typically there’s a, there’s a good results that fall.

Cliff Duvernois (12:50):
It sounds like you’re, you are also a believer like I am. That culture flows downhill.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (12:55):
Well, there’s no question but it actually, it actually cultivates from the workforce and that’s what the go home environment is all about. It’s about ensuring that your, your staff, your employees, everybody that’s involved, that’s the person that sweeps the floor all the way to the bank resident. You deal with that. They’re all treated with respect, that they’re all treated with a tremendous amount of appreciation. The guy that sweeps the floor doesn’t do his job. Guess what? There’s going to be a, there’s gonna be a mess and there’s going to be disease and there’s going to be different things that come upon the, the, the arena. If the guy that sweeps the floor doesn’t do his job properly, his job is critical. It’s critical to the development of our organization is occupant and we need to communicate to them that person how important your job is to us because they don’t hear those things.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (13:37):
But when you walk up and say, you know what? Hey listen, I respect your job. I appreciate it. And guess what? It’s really worthwhile for our organization, for you to do your job the way you do it. And we appreciate it. When you hear those things, guess what happens is they jump to another level. They say, you know what? Hey, you know what, my job is important. And when they feel they have a say and they feel that they’re part of the solution, then their results follow. And all of a sudden you see extremely clean restrooms and they see extremely clean floors. You see extremely clean railing. It all those things make a difference in the experience of a fan when they come into a building.

Cliff Duvernois (14:07):
I think it lends credence to the fact that when you tell these people, cause a lot of times people could sit there and say, well my job isn’t important. But when you draw attention to it, when you acknowledge it, when you bring them out front of the organization and say, you know what? Bob, the janitor here is the guy that’s singlehandedly responsible for making sure that our facilities are clean and dah, dah, dah. And that like you said before, it really takes them to a whole new level. It’s, it’s you’re, you know, you’re really celebrating their success. Like what you were talking about before.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (14:37):
Well, Ken Holland, one of the recognized is one of the top dental managers in sports now that general management Evans Oilers won three Stanley cups with the Detroit red wings. Dick Garber, a credible successful person in business as well as in life. And you look at the way they handle that situation and how they treat all the people that they work with them and form. And Ken Holland, when he walks through the arena he’s talking to, and I’ve done this with them, I’ve done this with them several times. I’ve walked because I walk up to a suite and watch games with him. And several occasions he stopped by and talking to the usher. He’s talking to the guy that cleans the glass. He’s talking to the guy that runs the Zamboni, calling them by first name, asking them how their kids are doing. Hey, listen, you know, how’s, how’s, how’s Laura doing at soccer?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (15:21):
How’s her? I bet they’re taking the butter. You know those little details of a leader now become part of, of attaining superior results because now the people that are working for you that are working with you feel that you know what, he or she really cares about me and he knows that my daughter is a soccer player. Wow. I didn’t recognize he even knew that or she even knew that. So. So those are, those are I guess hidden secrets inside of the people that I’ve observed that are, are, are at the level of success well beyond the ordinary. And it’s, it’s how they treat people and how they involve themselves in people’s lives for the better. And that that certainly is one of the keys, I think, through mentorship and to being able to observe.

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Cliff Duvernois (17:05):
Yeah, that actually brings up a really good question about how you’re treating people, leadership cultures within your organization. So my next question kind of bleeds into it. So my next question is, is what, what in your mind sets apart the, the, the Saginaw and the great lakes Bay region from other areas and regions?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (17:23):
Well, again, it comes down to people. I mean, we are just so blessed in this region with the quality of people that we have that really care about our community. My role, I’ve been in regions all over North America and getting involved with their chambers and with the, you know, I asked him to speak at certain things and there’s a certain, I guess the word I’m looking for is chemistry. There’s a certain chemistry of, of, of togetherness with the people in the great lakes Bay region and in riverfront, Saginaw. You’re seeing that happen now with the development of the riverfront, stagnant in that downtown area, old town all those things. I think that’s going to be incredible amount of development going on over there in the next 10 years. But it’s about people. It’s about the quality of the people, the people that really care.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (18:02):
And and I see that here and I feel it here. I’m in the trenches here with that and I, I, there’s places where I go where I can see that it’s missing. It doesn’t have, that, doesn’t have those people that truly cares our Quorn about what happens to their community. And that’s what we’ve got here with, with companies like Dow and Myra. There’s corporate ends of that, that care so much about the company. Next year you go on and on have like summit conducted. These people really care. They look at what they do for during different crises. They’re all stepping up to do, to do great things. And you know, it’s a special, it’s a special community and I’m glad that this is that the great lakes Bay region and rubber front Saginaw was my home.

Cliff Duvernois (18:38):
We were talking about community and I know we’re right now in the middle of this covert 19 pandemic. But the question I got for you is, you know, when we’re talking about community, when, when it’s the off season, what are some of the off ice activities that the team is performing in the community?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (18:53):
Well, yeah, that’s a great question, Cliff, is that there’s really never an off season and in sports, not just in hockey but in all the sports, but in hockey, the, the time when the season has gone on the ice is the busiest time for those off the ice. And to run the business because they’re doing corporate renewals, you know, season tickets, group tickets, sweet sales, all those things. Every game we have 34 home games in the Ontario hockey league. And every game is like, is very similar to hosting a wedding, inviting 4,500 people. Right. And so because each game has got a different theme to it, we have, we have, we have different charitable events at each game that where we try to, each game we try to do as an element for a community charity so that they can bring awareness to their cause and also help them refund, raise funds for it.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (19:40):
So yeah, during the off season, that stuff all takes a tremendous amount of energy synergy and working together. And it doesn’t just happen, you don’t just open the door and say, Hey, let’s go throw an event like shocks and saves and the shocks and saves event. By the way, started with URI Fisher and a conversation I had with dr Kaluchi with dr Peter patella here in Saginaw about how can we use the horrible incidents that happened to URI Fisher on the bench. To the advantage of our region. So we can help people here to understand how important is that to take care of their heart. And one thing led to the other and the results of that event through the pulse through foundation and MMR, is that we raised over $800,000 in our community for heart health awareness. Yeah. We’ve placed Cliff, we’ve placed over 300 defibrillators in high traffic locations throughout the region. Those defibrillator has been deployed 23 times and they’ve saved 12 lives out. That gives me chills and it’s, it’s, you know, hockey is the vehicle, but it’s really about the community. It’s about finding ways to work with groups like that. So when you ask, you know, what are they doing in the off season? You know, that group right there has to meet several times to be able to, it have a strategy that’s unified that’s agreed upon.

Cliff Duvernois (20:51):

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (20:52):
To be able to contain those kinds of results. So that’s what they do. And our staff has got 23 of those type events. So it’s, it’s shocks and saves is the number one event in the Kate hockey league for charity. And we’re proud. It’s part of deciding my spirit.

Cliff Duvernois (21:04):
Cool. I had no idea that, that your, your organization was involved with that many levels. So that’s really encouraging and inspiring to hear that. So thank you for sharing it with us. Yeah, you’re welcome. We all know this. I got to spirit had an excellent team. It was the best team and the franchises, 18 years of existence and this year it had to come to a screeching halt. And from, you know, from your perspective it had to be absolutely difficult to, to put an end to the season prematurely. Can you, can you talk us through, can you explain a little bit about your thought process, your emotions that went along with making that big decision?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (21:48):
Well, I was involved in the decision of course with the gate hockey league, the CHL site executive board of directors and very, very difficult decision, not just for our franchise but for the entire league personally for our franchise, it was extremely painful. You only get your window to win. But every three or four years, we’ve had our window multiple times in our 18 years. But this was the, this was the best opportunity for this team was loaded from top to bottom. We had the deepest team, there’s 60 teams in our league and most of the experts agreed that we had the deepest team and we have an excellent coach and Chris Lazarus, there is a, there are goaltender was playing really well. All the things were coming together cause we don’t have a goal. And you know what, I don’t know who said it. Goaltending is 80% of the game unless you don’t have one and it’s a hundred percent and I, and our goaltending was really starting to come along.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (22:35):
So we were really looking forward to a real strong playoff run. So that would have been, it would’ve been like the super bowl and refined, sag and I, my last year in our playoffs we went to the OHL conference finals. But the conference championship series last year with the golf storm, every game was like a, it was, we were sold out, building was electric, the community was on fire. And we were heading for an even bigger opportunity to do that this year. So yeah, it was painful. It was very, very difficult. But it was the right thing to do. It’s not, it goes back to leadership and it really does is that it’s not about us. It’s about what’s right for the players, what’s right for the health. In this case, the health professionals were telling us, you can’t gather, you can’t gather, you can’t do this.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (23:17):
Right, is I know that you guys don’t want to shut your league down, but bottom line is you can’t do this. Somebody’s gonna people are gonna die if you, if you guys gather, people are gonna die. When I was told that by a disease professional, that was the end of it. I, you know, Hey, listen, this is bigger than hockey. This is bigger than sport. This is bigger than business. It’s about life. We don’t follow the directions of the CDC. We’re going to have real issues here. And that, that connected with me real quick. And and also with our CHL board of directors and was decided upon that we had to shut it down. But it was painful. And certainly when you look into the eyes of the players in the Saginaw spirit, how hard they worked, our coaching staff, our fans, our fans that care so much. I liked that. I like to hug them off because they mean so much to all of us and, and it just, right now personally, I can’t, can’t do that and looking for the day when we can do that again. But bottom line is we’re all in this together and the right thing to do was to was I was to keep everybody out of harm’s way and that was the decision that was made.

Cliff Duvernois (24:12):
You strike me as somebody who isn’t afraid of a hard challenge. Do you see when this whole coven nine thing, 19 thing has passed that it’s going to be a monumental task to get a next season started up and fired up again?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (24:28):
Cliff. There’s no question it’s going to be, it’s going to be a lot of work, but I got Tyson. I think at the end of the day with all the different changes are being made, all the things that we’re learning that we could be better for it. And I’m not saying we’re going to be better for him and say we could be, we could be better for all this. I’m the technology. I mean we’re, we’re the webinars right now around our league and around business that are, that are that if we did this during our, our typical manner of doing business without the coven 19 we could save hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe, maybe business. We’ll look at more opportunity to use technology for meetings and for gatherings and that thing that, like I, I just think there’s a, there’s a potential that we could come out of this stronger than ever before, but it’s going to take work where it’s not gonna happen overnight.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (25:08):
And I agree with that. It’s going to be, everybody’s going to have to get used to the fact of gathering again and there’s going to be some, there’s going to be some elements of mistrust when it comes to being around each other. I mean, does this person have Colbert 19 do they not? I mean, should I wear a master? We all walk around in a mass for the next four or five months. Maybe we do, but we’ve got to keep the social distance thing for sure. I think there’s a way that as we get back, we got to go back to work because is is our governments now, eventually we got to go back to work. Can’t do this forever. Certainly when we do a, we’ve got to hit the, we got to hit the ground running with a, with a strategy of how we’re gonna manage this and we’re still working our way through those details now. Certainly I feel that there’s a, there’s, there’s a, there’s a way that we’re going to be better in the future, but it’s not going to be easy.

Cliff Duvernois (25:48):
I agree with that and I think it’s going to be, it’s going to take a little bit of effort and like you said, trust with, with people coming forward, just getting out of the house, just going to a restaurant or going to any kind of an event where there’s more than 10 or 20 people in a room, there’s going to be a little bit, a little bit of a ramp up there for people to come out. So yeah, I completely agree with that sentiment. I do got one more question for you. I was doing a little bit of research online and I came across your Twitter handle and I noticed that your Twitter name begins with the word goose is, are you any relation to goose Goslin?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (26:22):
Well, goose guys willing, actually the baseball player was my grandfather’s cousin. He was my grandfather’s first cousin, goose Goslin. His family settled in st Louis, Missouri. And my grandfather’s family settled in Windsor, Ontario. And so they they really never, when the families came over here from Ireland, they really never saw each other again. But they did over together. So, yeah, he who Skiles that was my grandfather’s first cousin. So yeah, there was a relative there. And of course last name again. Goslin you know, the baby baby goose is a Godwin, so that’s kind of where we all get the nickname. Every one of us in the family is called boost for the most part. All the males and everybody. Everybody’s a goose. So.

Cliff Duvernois (27:02):

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (27:02):
Well it goes with the name I guess.

Cliff Duvernois (27:04):
Excellent. Okay, great. So people want to connect with you or follow you online or I know I mentioned your Twitter, Twitter handle before what’s, what’s the best way for them to do that?

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (27:15):
Well, you know, certainly a sweater is that goose underscore, Saginaw sack. Bert agoose underscore sexpert. That’s my Twitter handle. The website at is another way. Our Facebook is just SaginawSpirit. Instagram is at SaginawSpirit. We’re also on tic-tok at SaginawSpirit, so you can communicate with me through that. We have a gal that handles all of our social media for us, but anything that’s related to communicating with me, shoot, she pushes it onto me. And, and that’s the best way to communicate with me. And also you can just get ahold of me. I’m at the spirit store at 57 89 state street. I’m always ready for fans and talk to people. And when the season is up, I’m always welcome to have people stop in and see me and ask for me. And my door’s always open.

Cliff Duvernois (27:57):
Awesome. And for our audience, we will make sure to have all those links in the show notes down below. Craig, it’s been a real pleasure having you on the podcast today talking about leadership, talking about culture, talking about hockey. Thank you so much.

Craig Goslin, Saginaw Spirit Hockey Club (28:12):
Oh, you’re welcome, Cliff and you know, better days ahead. It’s coming and certainly we’re looking forward to having an Ontario hockey league season next September.

Cliff Duvernois (28:19):
Amen to that brother. All right, thanks again. Hey everyone. Before you go, if you want to get these episodes delivered straight to your inbox, then come over to and sign up for our free email newsletter. That includesAll kinds of goodies. I’ll catch you in the next episode.