Unveiling the Charm of Tiny Digs Lakeshore

Because I really want to bring the tiny house

2

movement more to the Midwest.

3

And people are really interested in living

smaller, more minimalist environmentally

4

friendly, and living in a tiny house.

5

So, if we bring the idea to the

Midwest, commercially, where you

6

can come and look at tiny houses and

stay in one, get some ideas for one.

7

It gets the governmental entities

a little bit softened to the

8

idea of accepting tiny houses.

9

Cliff Duvernois: Hello, everyone.

10

Welcome back to Total Michigan, where

we interview ordinary Michiganders

11

doing some pretty extraordinary things.

12

I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

13

So a handful of weeks ago, I was

having dinner with some friends

14

and I said, you know, I'm going

to be going over to Muskegon.

15

I'm going to be doing some

interviews over there.

16

And one of them flipped out and

said, You have to stay at Tiny Digs.

17

And I said, what?

18

No idea what that is.

19

But I'm so glad that I did it because

I'm absolutely just loving this place.

20

And the experience here has

just been absolutely phenomenal.

21

And to talk to us today about Tiny

Digs, where this came from, the

22

whole idea, whole nine yards is Pam

23

Pam Westra: Thank you, Cliff.

24

Nice to be here today.

25

Cliff Duvernois: So Pam, if you would,

just for our audience, what is Tiny Digs?

26

Pam Westra: Well, we're at Tiny

Digs Lakeshore, the brand Tiny

27

Digs is kind of our thing now.

28

This is our second development,

over the last eight years.

29

Our first development is Tiny Digs

Hotel, which is in Portland, Oregon.

30

And my son was living, or our

son was living there for a number

31

of years on the West Coast.

32

And he kept saying, mom,

dad, come on out here.

33

The tiny house movement's taken off.

34

So we landed in Portland, Oregon

to start Tiny Digs Hotel there.

35

But home, where our heart is

at, is West Michigan here.

36

And we've always said that Muskegon

was a gem, just waiting to happen.

37

And over the last 8 10 years,

Muskegon is really blossoming.

38

we have Shoreline.

39

Scads of shoreline here.

40

People come here to enjoy the lakes

and, all the other attractions which

41

we'll go into more, a little later.

42

But we came home to Michigan

to start Tiny Digs Lakeshore.

43

And here we are.

44

happened to run into Cliff.

45

Yesterday, He was staying here

as a guest and I popped out and

46

said, Hey, welcome to Tiny Digs.

47

And in lies the interview here today

wasn't planned, but here we are.

48

And, I'm glad we are because

I, I'm a Michigander at heart.

49

So this is just perfect for his show.

50

Cliff Duvernois: Now every one of the

tiny homes that you've got here Is

51

based on a different kind of theme

and right now we're in the tiki hut.

52

Pam Westra: Yeah It's just a lot of fun

53

Cliff Duvernois: And I feel like

I should have a margarita glass or

54

something like that Right now in my hand.

55

Because this place is if you're watching

this on YouTube the every one of these

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places just beautifully decorated.

57

But the tiki hut in general just

makes it just feel like a party.

58

Pam Westra: Yeah, it's a fun little house.

59

We have had a couple

little parties in here.

60

They're very very tiny.

61

So that's very very small party

of like six or seven people.

62

But it's just a fun little house.

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And it was just Probably one of the

most fun ones I've decorated so far.

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We have 19 tiny houses in total.

65

And so this was just a lot of fun

to try and find the treasures for.

66

Cliff Duvernois: for.

67

You bet.

68

And So, Pam, let's take a

step back here for a second.

69

Tell us, where are you from?

70

Where did you grow up?

71

Pam Westra: I grew up in Wayne, which

is a suburb of the Detroit area.

72

I'm a Detroit girl at heart.

73

But then I went away to

college at Central Michigan.

74

And then, as I was in college, I

kept meeting all these cool people

75

from West Michigan and would end

up over here on weekends and stuff.

76

And I said, well, I, always

wanted to live by water.

77

And there is so much water here.

78

Lakes, rivers.

79

Lake Michigan, which is just gorgeous.

80

If you've never been to Lake

Michigan, you got to come here because

81

it's people call it, they say, it

looks like you're at the ocean.

82

So, it's our little Michigan ocean.

83

So a lot of sandy beaches.

84

So I ended up here a couple

of years after moving here.

85

I met, my husband.

86

And we have been married now for 43

years, almost 44 years and have two sons.

87

Our oldest son, Kevin, helps

us build all these tiny houses.

88

Uh, He's a craftsman.

89

We're all pretty much

artist, craftspeople.

90

And we love to create things.

91

Cliff Duvernois: Now, how did you

get into, housing constructions,

92

tiny homes, and decorating?

93

How did that all come about?

94

Pam Westra: My husband's dad

was a home builder in West

95

Michigan here, back in the day.

96

He died a few years ago at age 94.

97

But, the, housing industry, my husband

really, once he got out of the military,

98

he was drafted during the Vietnam War.

99

Once he got out of the service,

he had his, four years of

100

college paid for from the, army.

101

So he said, no, dad, I'm, not going

to do the home building with you.

102

But he'd always grown up in that.

103

His dad trained him.

104

He, old school dad, he knew from, all

the old tricks of a master carpenter.

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so my husband learned all those.

106

Um, But as my husband progressed

in his professions, because

107

he had a couple of them.

108

He ended up being a

chiropractor for about 25 years.

109

And we had a wellness

center in Spring Lake.

110

My former career was being

a special education teacher.

111

But when he got out of college

with his chiropractic degree,

112

we were in our thirties.

113

And I decided, okay, I've done

I'm teaching for 10 years.

114

I will help run our wellness center.

115

So we had a very successful, good,

wellness center that we helped and saved

116

a lot of people's, health and taught

them about wellness for all those years.

117

We needed a change.

118

road in an RV for seven years to travel.

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Our kids were out of

the house by that point.

120

Our son moved to the west

coast during that time.

121

And, Kevin and I kept, that's my oldest

son, we kept seeing the tiny house

122

movement and thought, oh, they're so cute.

123

Those tiny houses.

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You know, They're like little doll houses.

125

every girl's dream when they were

a little kid to have a tiny house.

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a dollhouse to play in or even a

kid with forts because you'll see

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some of the houses are more rustic.

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My son designed and my husband

designs things and we design all

129

our houses, we build all our houses.

130

or so, we started creating this idea.

131

So a good 10 years ago.

132

And researching it, deciding what

we This is over in Portland, right?

133

Yeah, that was in Portland, Oregon.

134

Tiny Digs Lakeshore here has only

been open for a little 10 months now.

135

Oh, wow.

136

And so it's very new.

137

house movement started really taking

138

off, as many people know, there

were probably seven, eight TV shows

139

on at one time about tiny houses.

140

And it was quite a thing.

141

I had a lot of women friends, that

were single, maybe divorced or

142

widowed, or maybe never been married,

and they said, Oh, you know, this

143

tiny house movement is so cool.

144

Why don't you build a tiny house village

where we could all go live, have a

145

communal, a communal room where you

could go do yoga, cooking, crafts, that

146

kind of thing, and a community garden.

147

And I said, Oh, that sounds

like such a great idea.

148

And so we started checking into that.

149

But at that time, 10 years ago,

the powers that be were not

150

ready for tiny house communities.

151

And there just weren't any at that time.

152

People were fighting around the

nation with governmental entities,

153

trying to get them approved.

154

But because they were so new, so

unusual, such a tiny space, they

155

weren't sure they wanted to accept them.

156

Now, ten years later, all our border

states in the United States all have,

157

um, uh, uh, tiny house communities.

158

It's starting to spread inward

to, some of the interstates.

159

We have tiny house communities all the

way from Kentucky, all the way to Florida.

160

And, They're just popping up all over.

161

So we said, we'd don't have the time

or the energy to fight government.

162

And so what's another avenue that

we can use to bring tiny houses

163

into existence and acceptance?

164

So that the powers that be would accept

them a little easier and not think of

165

them as something too odd and weird.

166

And, so Tiny House Hotels were springing

up, even before that ten year ago mark.

167

People were developing them, and

people were flocking to them for

168

a different experiential stay to

go to something different than a

169

box hotel room with blank walls.

170

As you can see here, we

don't have blank walls here.

171

It's, it's just a fun little, um,

venture here with all the little

172

tchotchkes around to fit the

theme and, fun stuff on the walls.

173

It was easier to jump in the arena with

the governmental entities and do a hotel.

174

In Portland, Oregon, where we started

at, where our son was living, um,

175

they already had one tiny house hotel.

176

But they were always 100 percent booked.

177

So we said, Portland,

Oregon is such a huge city.

178

I think there's room for another one.

179

And so we went there.

180

And, It only took us three

months to get approved out there.

181

There were lots of different stipulations.

182

And, but even Portland, as

progressive as it was accepting tiny

183

house hotels, it took till we were

there three or four years before

184

to legally live in a tiny house.

185

They did start, allowing

them, in the city of Portland.

186

things have advanced

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Cliff Duvernois: bit here So you

could build a tiny home if you

188

wanted to rent it out for short term

189

But You couldn't live in it.

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Pam Westra: You couldn't

live in it full time.

191

that's

192

Yeah.

193

And, every town has their rules and

regulations, zoning and ordinances.

194

The zoning ordinances, zoning and

planning division of your city will tell

195

you what size house you have to build.

196

You know, you, There's minimums.

197

And tiny houses are

too small of a minimum.

198

Um.

199

To fit most zoning and

planning ordinances, so

200

Cliff Duvernois: wouldn't allow

201

Pam Westra: they wouldn't allow them.

202

Cliff Duvernois: as far as because here

we are in Tiny Digs all these years

203

later You What So you had success over

204

right?

205

You got it.

206

You got it like up and running.

207

At what point did you sit

there and say to yourself?

208

Holy cow.

209

This is like a real viable business.

210

Pam Westra: Yeah.

211

Right away.

212

I mean, We watched the other business for

a couple of years as we were doing our

213

planning and planning to move to Portland.

214

We said, well, short term

rentals are taken off.

215

Tiny Digs is a short term rental.

216

We can't do over 30 days of,

having someone stay with us.

217

They don't want long, right.

218

They don't want long term

leases, So we're, we turn

219

into a landlord or anything.

220

it's a short term rental,

vacation kind of place.

221

We have a lot of business people,

though, stay with us, too.

222

And that's how you found us, too.

223

Business person in town.

224

And then we got to meet, so, yeah.

225

Cliff Duvernois: And then I guess

my next question would be, cause

226

it's such a hit in Portland.

227

And you said this a little bit when

you first started talking in the

228

interview, but for some reason you

decided to come back to Michigan.

229

And do this here.

230

Why not just keep flipping them out

in Portland and become like, you

231

know, the McDonald's of tiny homes?

232

Pam Westra: Over there.

233

Right.

234

Well, we really missed West Michigan.

235

My husband grew up here.

236

And, I grew up in the

Detroit area of Michigan.

237

But still had all the lakes and

the rivers in my heart here.

238

And, we liked the conservative

values here to, to raise a family.

239

And that's why our son

wanted to come home.

240

He was ready to raise a family.

241

Housing is very, very

expensive on the West Coast.

242

And so, we kept putting a bug

in his ear and his wife's ear.

243

well, here's some houses in Michigan.

244

Look at how much house you could get

if we all moved back to Michigan.

245

And technology advanced so much in

these first eight years of having Tiny

246

Digs, Hotel in Portland that we saw

that we could manage it from afar.

247

Everything's automated now.

248

People self check in, self

check out since COVID.

249

Nobody wants to go to a front desk.

250

So we didn't have to have somebody

there all day, uh, managing that.

251

And so everything's pretty automated.

252

People book online or give us a call.

253

it's, you know, you get emails

telling you how to get to the place.

254

And how to get into the houses,

and so it's all very automated, so.

255

Cliff Duvernois: For our audience

we're going to take a quick

256

break and thank our sponsors.

257

When we come back we're going

to talk about how the Tiny

258

Digs came to be into Muskegon.

259

And what you can expect

when you come here.

260

We'll see you after the break.

261

Are you enjoying this episode?

262

Well, I can tell you

there's a lot more to come.

263

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264

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265

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266

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267

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com, enter your email address today.

270

Hello everyone, and welcome back to

Total Michigan, where we interview

271

ordinary Michiganders doing some

pretty extraordinary things.

272

I'm your host, Cliff Duvernois.

273

Today, we're talking with Pam Westra

of Tiny Digs in, um, Muskegon.

274

And Pam, before the break, we were

talking about how you had gotten

275

success in Portland doing your, your

tiny homes, a motel, so to speak.

276

And now you've decided that we're

going to come back to Michigan.

277

And so when you come back to Michigan

and you're thinking you're gonna want

278

to do the tiny home thing here Okay,

so talk to us about the process.

279

I mean, how did you How

did you find the land?

280

How did it go with the with Michigan?

281

Because like you said everybody seems

to have their own housing requirements.

282

So how did that work out?

283

Pam Westra: Before we even came home,

we, it was a couple year process

284

before we got back here due to COVID.

285

We had planned to come back home earlier.

286

But we had to get everything stabilized

out in Portland, Oregon again.

287

So when we visited, we would meet with

the city and talk to them about our idea.

288

They were very tiny house friendly.

289

They already have a little

shopping district downtown

290

That uh, they call The Chalets.

291

I call them tiny houses.

292

It's little entrepreneurial tiny tiny

businesses on our main street downtown.

293

So when I saw those, I said,

Oh, they're tiny house friendly.

294

When we come home, maybe we'll

start a tiny house development here.

295

Because I really want to bring the tiny

house movement more to the Midwest.

296

So that we can have some tiny house

communities for full time living in.

297

People want them.

298

There's a need.

299

It got promoted more, I think, on

the coastal states where there's so

300

many tiny house communities already.

301

Because everyone knows there's

a housing shortage worldwide.

302

Not just particular states,

but worldwide housing shortage.

303

And people are really interested in living

smaller, more minimalist environmentally

304

friendly, and living in a tiny house.

305

So, if we bring the idea to the

Midwest, commercially, where you

306

can come and look at tiny houses and

stay in one, get some ideas for one.

307

It gets the governmental entities

a little bit softened to the

308

idea of accepting tiny houses.

309

They can see how cute they can be.

310

I know we got a bit of

pushback from the community.

311

The city was pretty for having

this tiny house development

312

here as a commercial entity.

313

Because down the road, I think

they would like to look at tiny

314

house communities here in this

area that hasn't come out yet.

315

But it is it's incubating.

316

Let's say.

317

It takes a long time.

318

Muskegon was very progressive.

319

Just last year they did change their

zoning and planning ordinances from

320

850 square foot to residential home

down to 550 square foot requirements.

321

So that's getting tinier,

322

Cliff Duvernois: tinier.

323

Pam Westra: still not as tiny

as most tiny houses are though.

324

Cliff Duvernois: So let me ask you

that question there because that that

325

brings up a good point when we're

talking about tiny homes How many square

326

footage are we typically talking about?

327

Pam Westra: This one, these that we

have here at Tiny Digs Lakeshore are

328

anywhere from like 250 to 275 square feet.

329

And that's including the loft.

330

The sleeping area and all these

that we have here is in a loft area.

331

You walk up some little

stairs, queen bed up in there.

332

So it's very tiny, very compact, just for

vacation, not a lot of storage in these.

333

So.

334

These are only 20 foot long.

335

Now, if somebody's going to live in one

full time, we find in the tiny house

336

world that most people, they're living

in a 24, 28, 36 foot long tiny house.

337

These are eight and a half

foot wide because that makes

338

them legal to go down the road.

339

These are tiny houses on wheels.

340

And so these tiny houses

on wheels have restrictions

341

because of moving on the roads.

342

And so eight and a half foot wide is

your standard width for road travel.

343

You can get a special permit and they are

making some now that are ten foot wide.

344

And it just seems oh, the luxury.

345

We have one in Portland.

346

We call it the luxury tiny house out

there because it's ten foot wide.

347

It feels so much bigger.

348

And it's 20 foot long and these

are 20 foot by eight and a half.

349

So They are tiny.

350

we build all these tiny houses,

351

Cliff Duvernois: to be

352

my next

353

Pam Westra: question.

354

Yeah.

355

Yeah.

356

Cliff Duvernois: Do you go to

a catalog and say I want this

357

want this tiny house, or do

358

Pam Westra: You you can do that.

359

Now, I've seen, uh, you know, out there.

360

You can go online and look up, you

361

know, prefab tiny houses.

362

A lot of them are more like a shed kit.

363

And I don't know how long they would last.

364

Some of them when I look at them.

365

And they're not on a trailer.

366

So these are a trailer that's specifically

made to build a tiny house on.

367

They carry the weight and then we

design it from the trailer on up.

368

And they're 2x4 construction in the

sidewalls, 2x6 in the floors and ceilings,

369

just like a residential home would be.

370

And if you take care of one

of these, it can last as long

371

as a residential home would.

372

We don't build them with your typical

RV, camping trailer kind of materials.

373

They're built with very good quality.

374

Just like you would use

in a residential home.

375

So, they're going to last a lifetime

or two if you take care of it.

376

Just like your stick built house will last

100, 200 years if you take care of it.

377

That's what these are built like,

378

Cliff Duvernois: you mentioned

before about getting some pushback

379

from people in the communities about

this place, so not everybody was

380

Pam Westra: about the houses?

381

No, no, they weren't.

382

They didn't understand them.

383

And I, I can appreciate that.

384

They didn't understand.

385

They, This is kind of a mixed

use area where we're at.

386

We're in the little

downtown area of Lakeside.

387

It's a little, cute, quaint

neighborhood of Muskegon.

388

And we're, the shores of Muskegon

Lake are right across the street.

389

Lake Michigan is four minutes

by car down the street.

390

We have the bike path across the street.

391

But we have all these little

shops and restaurants and pubs.

392

Right here within walking distance.

393

We're four blocks from the

high speed ferry that comes

394

in from Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

395

And so people come over on the ferry

and walk down from the ferry boat.

396

They don't even have to take

a car if they don't want.

397

A lot of people come in the

summertime with their bikes.

398

Because pedal bikes and

motorcycles, we accept all those.

399

We have a bike path across the street that

goes entirely around the Muskegon Lake.

400

But it also hooks up to many, many trails

that go across the state of Michigan.

401

There's a trail that goes next to I 96.

402

It goes I don't even know how far it goes.

403

I think it goes across the whole state.

404

I'm not 100 percent sure.

405

But it's, the bike trails

are old rail lines.

406

And this bike path across the street

hooks up to a west coast of Michigan bike

407

trail that goes all the way up north.

408

So, and I'm sure probably to the U.

409

P.

410

Um, They've connected all these bike

trails on the old rail tracks, and

411

that's what this is, across the street.

412

And, uh,

413

Cliff Duvernois: so when you got

permission to build a tiny homes, right?

414

And you were talking about how your

family, basically built in carpenters,

415

you know, are, are building them.

416

Talk to us about, cause this

is what really is intrigued me.

417

Every single house here

has its own theme, right?

418

So this is Tiki.

419

You've got a farmhouse theme.

420

You've got a vineyard theme.

421

You've got a beach theme.

422

So did you just watch a ton of HDTV.

423

I mean where where did you get the I

guess the the creative juices to say

424

You know, hey, let's decorate it this

way because they all look fantastic.

425

Pam Westra: Thanks.

426

Thanks.

427

Searching back in my memory, that was

the first piece of paper that we wrote

428

about developing a tiny house hotel.

429

We definitely wanted to have themes.

430

And so our first meeting to do that

was, Okay, what are all our themes?

431

Because it's a family business.

432

Our son, Kevin, and his wife,

Stacey build and decorate these

433

with my husband, Bruce, and I.

434

And, um, we've all been involved

with this whole process for the

435

eight years that we've been doing it.

436

the themes were, we said, well, you

know, I like going, staying somewhere

437

that has a little different theme.

438

But, it, the theme idea has really

taken off in the travel world also.

439

When I was looking at different tiny

house hotels around the world, I

440

saw like a whole camp of Airstreams

on top of a big building in Africa.

441

And they had taken all these

Airstream trailers and put them

442

up there like a little campground

on top of a tall building.

443

And then there's a shepherd's

hut, huts over in England.

444

And, these cute.

445

They're cute little things.

446

And, who, tiny houses

are just cute anyhow.

447

So why not make them a theme?

448

And so it was real fun to decorate

them and look for all the little

449

touches to have in the tiny

houses to go with each theme.

450

And experiential travel has been the

most popular segment of the travel

451

industry for the last five years.

452

So I guess we were a little bit ahead

of the curve when we did themes and

453

tiny houses back eight years ago.

454

Because that is an experience,

an experience to last a lifetime.

455

I've had people stand in the driveway

doing a happy dance and squealing when

456

they've arrived, looking at the tiny

houses 'cause it's been like their

457

dream to come stay in a tiny house.

458

You know, little kids just love them too.

459

They love the climbing up in the lofts.

460

And it's like being in a tree fort.

461

And so they're just a lot of fun.

462

Cliff Duvernois: one of the things too,

when you were taking me on a tour, the

463

place that really struck me is the amount

of recycling that you do, You're not

464

going out and buying brand new things.

465

It's going to a estate sales or

people just throw stuff away and

466

you're like, Hey, can I have that?

467

Yeah.

468

Next thing you know,

it's decorating a wall.

469

Pam Westra: Yeah.

470

Yeah.

471

Yeah.

472

It is.

473

For instance, you're in the farmhouse.

474

There is an old milk jug in there.

475

The old metal, three foot high

milk jug that we turned into the

476

end table to the, the couch there.

477

Painted it up.

478

And then made a wooden top for it.

479

there's old lights made, uh,

in the farmhouse from wooden

480

horse stanchion materials.

481

And then old wine bottles that

were there in the vineyard house.

482

We had antique wine bottles that we

cut the hole out in the bottom and

483

then fashioned into a light there.

484

We fashioned a, all our bathroom

doors are sliding doors.

485

They're custom built for

each house as a space saver.

486

Sliding doors are recommended in tiny

houses in the interior to save space.

487

And so we like to bring a little

bit of old and a little bit

488

of new into all the houses.

489

And I sometimes search for two years

for particular things that I have in

490

mind that I want to bring into a house.

491

I know out in Oregon, I look for

the front door of our cottage house

492

out there for two or three years

because I wanted an antique door.

493

I didn't want a new door on that house.

494

It's a cottage Victorian home.

495

And so I wanted that

old school door on it.

496

And had to look around for

that for quite a while.

497

So it's fun.

498

You know, we're recycling.

499

We're repurposing.

500

Some things are totally refashioned.

501

and made into something

completely different.

502

Like in here, we have an old paddle, or

for the handrail going to the upstairs.

503

upstairs.

504

Cliff Duvernois: And then, so

actually this leads into my

505

next question quite nicely.

506

If somebody is coming here, maybe

for the first time, you know,

507

they've listened to the interview.

508

They're like, you know

what, I want to check this

509

Pam Westra: this out.

510

Cliff Duvernois: What can people

expect when they come to Tiny Digs?

511

Pam Westra: Tiny Digs in itself,

staying in a tiny house is just fun.

512

But we make the yard fun too.

513

We have a double lot here.

514

We have an old hundred year old house,

next door, that's part of development

515

that we'll be developing over time.

516

But we have two fire pits.

517

We have swings.

518

We have hammocks.

519

We have games.

520

You know, the, the cornhole

game and a bunch of other games

521

out in the summertime and such.

522

But the bike path is

just across the street.

523

Bring your bikes.

524

Bring your beach clothes.

525

The beach is four miles down

or four minutes down the road.

526

There's a boat launch to go fishing

right across the street also.

527

And great fishing in Muskegon Lake.

528

So there's tons of stuff to do, not

only in the summer, but the winter, too.

529

I was telling you about our luge

park, Muskegon State Park just

530

a few minutes away from here.

531

We have one of the only four luge

runs in all of the United States.

532

They have ice skating there.

533

They have snowshoeing.

534

They have night hike trails.

535

Those are open year round.

536

The night hike trails have lights on them.

537

Very magical looking.

538

I showed you a picture of when we went up

there for that, that evening to hike it.

539

And so there's, downtown Muskegon

is just a plethora of history.

540

Muskegon started in the

541

And Charles Hackley, you'll see a

lot of buildings named after him.

542

He, donated tons of money

to the city in his lifetime.

543

His old mansions and his partner's

old mansions, they're still downtown.

544

They're just phenomenal old

homes that you can go tour.

545

There's a wonderful, wonderful

little art museum here.

546

Most world renowned with some of the

items that they have in the art museum.

547

And they're just going

through an expansion.

548

The downtown area has tons of

little restaurants and pubs.

549

We have a bunch of breweries

that have popped up in town.

550

Right a couple doors down here

from Tiny Digs is Wonderland

551

Distillery, So there's a lot to

see and do here behind the scenes.

552

You just gotta check it out and

go online and see what is there to

553

see and do in Muskegon, Michigan.

554

Because there's, there's a tons

of outdoor activities and even

555

indoor activities for wintertime.

556

So

557

Cliff Duvernois: Nice and then one

of the things you mentioned before

558

I wanted to circle back on is that

You know because when we talk about

559

the caliber, you know, you talk about

experiment experiential Vacationing

560

Pam Westra: Yeah.

561

Right.

562

Cliff Duvernois: So you have

actually been featured on HGTV

563

Pam Westra: Yes, yeah.

564

We were on, the first year that we

opened Tiny Digs Hotel in Portland.

565

We were featured on Tiny

House Hunters on HGTV.

566

Because it's a show on if somebody's

out shopping for a tiny house,

567

how, how did they pick that?

568

And, the different types of

tiny houses that are out there.

569

And I think ours, our development out

there, there's 12 houses there now.

570

There wasn't in the beginning

when we did that show.

571

But, We purposely built the

houses out there with different

572

materials and different roof lines.

573

So that people could go,

oh, I, I want a tiny house.

574

But I don't really know

how I want to design it.

575

We design all ours.

576

They're not something that

we buy from somebody else.

577

We build them from the ground up

and design them from the ground up.

578

They're not a kit.

579

And so the exterior materials on the

houses are, different one from the other.

580

The roof lines are different out

there, one for the, from the other.

581

Here we have three, maybe four

different types of roof lines.

582

And so that we'll give people a

sampling of different materials

583

and stuff that they might use in

a tiny house if they want to build

584

Cliff Duvernois: stuff

585

then Pam if somebody is listening to this.

586

They want to come and check you out

587

Connect with you online.

588

Make a reservation please do.

589

Where can they go?

590

Pam Westra: Just go to tinydigslakeshore.

591

com and it will bring you to our website.

592

And, you can book your stay right there.

593

And we appreciate direct bookings.

594

We are on a lot of other platforms.

595

People find us that way, but we hope when

they come back that they bypass those

596

other platforms so that, uh, we don't

have to pay those big commissions that

597

they have on those platforms to find us.

598

But we have our own website.

599

So people, probably 80 percent of

our people do find us on our website.

600

And it's Tiny Digs Lake Shore.

601

Or if you're going to the west coast and

want to stay in a tiny house in Portland,

602

Oregon, it's just Tiny Digs Hotel.

603

com.

604

Cliff Duvernois: Pam, thank you so much

for taking time to chat with us today.

605

Really appreciate

606

Pam Westra: Thanks Cliff for having us.

607

Cliff Duvernois: And for our audience, you

can always roll on over to TotalMichigan.

608

com, click on Pam's interview, and get

the links that she mentioned above.

609

We will catch you next time when we

talk to another Michigander doing

610

some pretty extraordinary things.

611

We'll see you then.