Sweet Success: Inside Patricia’s Chocolates

And about five years before I retired, I thought what

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am I going to do for the rest of my life?

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I was going to retire when I was 51.

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I don't play golf.

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So, I thought, well, I love

making pastries and desserts.

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And I would always be the person

to volunteer to bring desserts if

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we were going to someone's house.

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So I was the dessert queen.

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Everybody's favorite person.

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Yes.

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And that morphed into my wanting

to do chocolate at some point.

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I love chocolate.

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It's hard not

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Cliff Duvernois: Hello everyone,

welcome back to Total Michigan, where

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we interview ordinary Michiganders

doing some pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

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So today I'm in Grand Haven and one of

the things that I've never had on the

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show is to actually talk to a chocolatier.

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And I actually had an opportunity

to meet today's guest when I was

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actually up in Traverse City of

all places at a chocolate festival.

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And when I was talking to them,

I absolutely loved their story I

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loved their chocolate even more.

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And come to find out they're in Grand

Haven So I was like, you know what?

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Let's make this interview happen.

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So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome

the owner of Patricia's Chocolates

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and that would be Patty Christopher.

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Patty How are you?

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Patricia Christopher: I'm fine.

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Thank you.

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Cliff Duvernois: Excellent.

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tell us, what is Patricia's Chocolates?

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Patricia Christopher: We're a French

chocolate shop in Grand Haven, Michigan.

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Um, And I do artisan chocolate with

European chocolate artisan ganache.

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And that sounds backwards, doesn't it?

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Yes.

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That's okay.

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Cliff Duvernois: That's okay.

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And you have, you got, you use the

machines here that they're using to make

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your chocolate and all that other stuff?

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Patricia Christopher: do.

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We have, enrobers.

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We have a tumbler where we tumble

to make chocolate coated, chocolate

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covered, malt balls, coffee beans,

locally roasted coffee beans.

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We make macarons here, shortbread cookies,

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caramels.

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Cliff Duvernois: You also work with a

lot of the farmers here in Michigan?

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Patricia Christopher: We do.

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Yeah.

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And if not, I'm sourcing from

Europe, where everything is non GMO.

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you would, let's take

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Cliff Duvernois: So if you would,

let's take a step back here.

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I want to, I want to talk about your

journey into how you got into this world.

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So take us back.

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Where are you from and

where did you grow up?

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Patricia Christopher: I

grew up here in Grand Haven

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Cliff Duvernois: Okay.

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Patricia Christopher: And

I've really never left.

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I went to college here, became

a special education teacher.

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And then went to Michigan State

and got a couple more degrees.

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Graduate degrees ended up

being a school psychologist.

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And had a private practice as

a psychologist, worked with

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children and adolescents.

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And then I worked as a school

psychologist in the schools forever

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for Grand Rapids Public Schools and

mona shore's public schools here.

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And about five years before I

retired, I thought what am I going

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to do for the rest of my life?

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I was going to retire when I was 51.

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And I don't play golf.

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So, I thought, well, I love

making pastries and desserts.

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I, started calling culinary schools.

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And ended up starting to take

classes at the French pastry

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school in Chicago and Berry Calabo

Chocolate Academy in Montreal.

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And then they opened a

branch in Chicago, too.

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So, I've taken most of

my classes from them.

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Cliff Duvernois: So let's

take a step back here.

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So why did you decide to get

into, to first off into education?

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Patricia Christopher: Well, I always

wanted to become a kindergarten teacher.

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And, in the 70s, when I went to school,

there was a glut of regular ed teachers.

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And, we were all told, in our first

year, when Grand Valley was still

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Grand Valley State Colleges, that,

if we expected to get, teaching

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positions when we graduated, we should

probably think about special education.

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And special education was fairly new.

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That started in the early 70s.

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So that was the way we went.

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we had different endorsements in

emotionally impaired, learning

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disabilities, mentally impaired.

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Um, We also did, um, student teaching

in, So I could be a regular ed

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teacher with that endorsement too.

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So, I, just started working as

a special education teacher.

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And I had a resource room.

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And then that morphed into self

contained, emotionally impaired classroom.

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And then I thought, I

think I like what this is.

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This person is doing who comes

into my room and takes children

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out of my classroom and gives

them evaluations and psychological

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tests and personality assessments.

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So I need to learn more about that.

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And so I called Grand Valley.

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And they didn't have a program.

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There were only three in the state.

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So one was Michigan State.

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So I worked full time and drove to

Michigan State at night and spent

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the summers there and got my degrees.

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Specialist degree and a, master's.

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Cliff Duvernois: So, you stay in

education, doing psychological

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work, you have your side practice.

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At what point in time did you start

fooling around with the world of pastries?

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Patricia Christopher: That

was probably in my twenties.

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And I would always be the person

to volunteer to bring desserts if

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we were going to someone's house.

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So I was the dessert queen.

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Everybody's favorite person.

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Yes.

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Just elaborate torts.

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It's ganache fillings, chocolate

bands around the outside of the cakes.

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And that morphed into my wanting

to do chocolate at some point.

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I love chocolate.

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It's hard not

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Cliff Duvernois: It's hard not to.

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So now within like you were talking

about five years before your retirement

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and you're thinking to yourself, Oh

my goodness, I have to do something.

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Why the hassle of going back to like

the Culinary Institute and to these

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chocolatier schools and things like that?

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Why not just do it on your own?

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Is this did you have some kind of a

vision in your mind at that time, or

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what was, what did that look like?

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Patricia Christopher: I think what I

learned I started looking at pastry books

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and I realized that the pastry books

I needed to focus on were in grams,

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not teaspoons, cups, half cups.

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So the measurements were different.

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That made me start thinking about

Europe and European chefs, and in

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particular pastry chefs and chocolatiers.

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It was a relatively new field when I

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So It wasn't that I was going

back for another degree, because

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I was already working full time.

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So I couldn't do that.

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but they would have guest chef

classes, where they would have chefs

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from France, Belgium, come over,

and they were three day classes.

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And so I would go to Chicago or Montreal

for three days and just take classes

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with other chefs from around the country,

who had the same interests that I had.

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we're all connected.

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We take a lot of classes together.

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We support each other.

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We're in different states.

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We can help resource, ingredients

that are important to what we do.

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it's been, a blast actually.

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Cliff Duvernois: And now so when so it's

not like you went to school full time.

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Culinary school full time.

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It was just taking these classes?

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Patricia Christopher: Correct.

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That's how I started.

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Now some people actually do do a two

year program or a six month program.

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But you don't need to.

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You can end up where I

am without doing that.

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You have to be a little passionate

about what you do though.

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You're thinking about it all the time.

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Cliff Duvernois: Yes, you do.

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Because being in the world of pastry,

that's like a whole other skill set

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versus just, you know, let's open

a cake box and dump it into a bowl

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with a couple eggs and some, you

know, vegetable syrup or something.

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Because that's, you

know, guilty as charged.

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So as you're taking these classes,

your skills are developing, you're

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learning more about the chocolate world.

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At what point in time did you

say to yourself, you know what,

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maybe I should open up a shop?

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Patricia Christopher:

About a year into it.

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Really?

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I started thinking now years ago, right?

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Cliff Duvernois: to go before you retired?

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Patricia Christopher: But about

a year into taking classes, I was

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making, in my home kitchen, a lot

of chocolates and giving them away.

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Ganache palettes, as I

make them, or bonbons.

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I was giving so many away that

it was becoming quite expensive.

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And I remember saying to my husband, I

think I could turn this into a business.

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Cliff Duvernois: Ooh.

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Patricia Christopher: But I didn't

want a brick and mortar store.

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I didn't want to have

employees at the time.

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I just wanted to make chocolate.

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So, I called the health department

and asked them how I would put a

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commercial kitchen in our house.

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Found out it wouldn't be licensed

under the health department.

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It would be Department of Agriculture.

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So then I called the

Department of Agriculture.

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That ended up going before the

Planning Commission in Grand

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Haven, the Zoning Board of Appeals.

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And I had permission to then do a

home, occupation in my neighborhood.

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Letters were sent out to all my neighbors.

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So they would know that this

person wanted to do that.

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So if they wanted to go to City

Hall and Complain or protest, they

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had an opportunity to do that.

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Actually, my neighbors were

quite enthusiastic about having

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someone making chocolate.

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So I had some of them calling the city

hall or, you know, like writing a letter.

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One of the elderly women wrote a

letter and just said they thought

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it was great that they would have a

chocolate maker in the neighborhood.

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So I can't have signage

or anything like that.

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But that's how I started my business.

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it was just by chance.

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I was making seven different chocolates.

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And I had already sourced out

my packaging which, um, comes

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from Tokyo, so it's Japanese.

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and then I was trying to figure out

the designs and how they would look.

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And I went to Art of the

Table in Grand Rapids.

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And she was the first person who

really believed in me and that

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this could be something that,

um, she could sell in her shop.

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She's carried my chocolates ever since.

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And then from there, it went to selling

to other shops around the state.

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And then out of state now, too.

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So I still maintain that.

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And I have this commercial kitchen

in our home that's licensed.

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And it has to be re licensed every year.

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You renew your license.

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And, after a while, I was

getting equipment in there.

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And my Footprint was expanding and

then I realized that we were becoming

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so busy, because I was hand dipping

everything, and when I was doing three

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and five hundred I started getting this

Twing this twinge in my and I thought

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okay, maybe that could be carpal tunnel

We need the heavy duty equipment.

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The I love Lucy machine

with a conveyor belt

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Cliff Duvernois: The

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Patricia Christopher:

So we purchased that.

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And Then I thought I can't

manage all this on my own.

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I am going to have to have

employees, but I can't have

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employees in a home occupation.

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Cliff Duvernois: Right.

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Yes.

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Patricia Christopher: So that's

when we started looking for a

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place to have our, our shop.

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And we ended up here

downtown in Grand Haven.

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It's the perfect side of the street.

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We don't get sun in the window.

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if I were across the street,

that would be an issue.

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But it's not here.

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And we don't want sun in our

windows because it melts chocolate.

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And, We've been open for eight and a

half years now as a chocolate shop.

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Chocolate-Cliff: So let me go

back in and when you first started

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making the chocolates in your

kitchen you were talking about how

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you were trying to get people from

around the state to carry them.

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How did that meeting go?

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I mean did you just like knock on

their door and be like hey try my

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chocolate do you want to sell it?

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How did that work?

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Patricia Christopher: Well for

instance Amy at Art of the Table I

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took a nine piece box with a piece

of paper towel and a knife, a little

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paring knife and introduced herself.

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We had heard about her from one of Wine

Reps, who was the husband of one of the

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one of the principals at my school, in one

of the schools I served in Grand Rapids.

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And so, he had already said,

this person makes chocolate.

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You should talk to her.

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And so I called her and

asked if I could come in.

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And I did.

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And I was cutting the chocolate for her,

because we do recommend that my chocolate

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squares be cut into six or quarters.

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They're quite intense with the flavor.

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they're just all natural,

like fruit purees and fresh

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fruits and things like that.

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So I would cut those and she tried

them and just thought this is a winner.

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I'm not carrying anything like that.

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And I also started out being only one

like I don't sell anywhere else in

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Grand Rapids It's just one shop per town

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So I don't want to be everywhere.

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I'm i'm only one person.

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But now that i'm here I have

pastry chefs working for me.

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I have a baker.

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We have a great staff that's

been with me through all of this

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Cliff Duvernois: For our audience

we're going to take a quick break

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and thank our sponsors When we come

back, we're going to talk a little

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bit more about the transition from

psychologist to business owner as

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well as what you can expect When you

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come here to Patricia's Chocolates.

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We'll see you after the break.

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there's a lot more to come.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to

Total Michigan where we interview

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ordinary Michiganders doing some

pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff Duvenois.

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So today we're talking all things

chocolate with the owner of

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Patricia's chocolate in Grand Haven

and that would be Patty Christopher.

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And Patty before the break, we

were talking about how you had

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hit this point where you're

where you're thinking yourself.

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You know what?

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We're going to have to

get a dedicated space.

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We're going to have to get more equipment

because I just can't do this by myself.

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Your business is starting to grow.

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You're starting to get your

chocolates all around the state.

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So talk to us about so much.

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You know, when you made this decision,

talk to us about finding the location

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and how did that whole process work?

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Patricia Christopher: We were

actually selling our chocolates

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in one of the local shops here.

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And we just thought that we could sell

more chocolates than the shop was selling.

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So we really did need a shop.

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And we had corporate people

coming in wanting us to do things.

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And it was just so much work that,

because I said I had needed help,

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it We found the perfect location.

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We were going to first

purchase a building.

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But we couldn't find the perfect

building that was for sale at the time.

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And then we found this space.

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But it didn't look like this.

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Um, We had to build it out.

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And my idea was that it would

be a little French chocolate

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shop, a little European shop.

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So people would come in and they'd hear

French music and they'd see French things.

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Some of the words that, and

the terminology we would be

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using would be in French.

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We would have a video on the wall

that is over to, over my right

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corner at my, my right shoulder.

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So it's always running, photos of

our trips to, to Paris and to France.

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And we've invited, customers of ours

to share their pictures with us too.

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And then we put them up.

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Which is really nice.

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But our idea, my husband's also a

psychologist, was a school psychologist

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and also is a private practice

psychologist who's also retired.

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And, when you're doing therapy, you

could be in therapy with someone for

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a year, two years, sometimes three

years, but the idea of the chocolate

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is it's like instant therapy.

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It's, it's your instant happiness.

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it's not a long process and

it's just for the moment.

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But it's really special when you

try it and all of a sudden your

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focus is on what's on your palate

and the flavors you're experiencing.

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So it's just, it's a small indulgence

that is pretty much affordable.

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When we first started we were doing

samples of every chocolate in our case.

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I have about 55 different

chocolates I make right now

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on a regular rotating basis.

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And we were cutting them into twelfths

But we were going through so much

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product and then with covid that ended.

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And we just never picked up on that.

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But now we still sample out, the

percentages of, the chocolate, so

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people can have a flavor that way.

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And because my husband was also a

teacher, because we're both teachers,

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we're about, we're really focused

on, teaching people about chocolate.

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And why this chocolate and the

European chocolate with the percentages

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different than the American chocolate

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Cliff Duvernois: And

sharing the story well.

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Yes.

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The one thing I noticed when I came

here, to go back to what you were talking

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about before, is when I came in here,

and the smell of chocolate hit me, one

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of the thoughts that went through my

head was, it is impossible to be in a

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bad mood and walk through that door.

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Because as soon as I smelled the chocolate

like a smile came across my face.

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Because that is just just the

thought of chocolate has that impact

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Patricia Christopher: That happens

with people coming in, too.

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And they'll comment on it.

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And those of us who work here, we

can no longer smell the chocolate.

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I can be gone for a week and come

back, I'm still not smelling chocolate.

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But what's really interesting is

we had a, a trio, from the other

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side of the state come over.

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And they were at the Starlight

Room here performing.

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And we had them spend the night with us.

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one of the guys, He said to

me the next morning, he said,

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I walked out of my bedroom.

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And I was just hit with

the smell of chocolate.

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And I said, you can smell

the chocolate in our house?

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But then I thought, well, that's

where our commercial kitchen is.

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So, the chocolate is all over.

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And so I guess you would smell it.

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Yeah.

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it's kind of, but you smell that

here and on baking days, you're

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smelling the shortbread cookies or

you're, you're smelling the macarons.

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it's, I think what it tells people is

that, the product is being made here.

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And it's fresh and everything

we make, we make in house.

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That way we know the story behind it.

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And we can tell people

about what they're tasting.

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Speaking

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Cliff Duvernois: Speaking of

which, and man, my brain is just

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filling up with questions so fast.

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One of the things that you do here is, and

before the microphones turned on, is you

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were sharing the stories with me about.

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all of the different Michigan farmers

farmers that you buy product from that

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actually make it into your chocolate.

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Why is that even important?

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Why not just go to a big box store

and buy a can of blueberries off

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the shelf versus going to somebody's

blueberry farm to get them?

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Patricia Christopher: Well it's

a lot more interesting to meet

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the people behind the product.

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Which is true.

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Which, so, with, with the chestnuts, as we

were talking about before the interview,

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I get them from the Winkle Chestnut Farm.

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And I pick them myself.

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Lavender comes from Lavender Hill

Farms up near Charlevoix in Boyne City.

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I use liqueurs from Black Star

Farms in a lot of my, chocolates.

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I have an entire table filled

with honey, local honey, from Dr.

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Brian Stork, who's a

urologist in Muskegon.

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And he has backyard honey hives.

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So we're, I'm using his, his honey, and

I'm using it to make a genache honey

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hive, There's, honey drenched pears, which

are, I make a caramel out of the honey.

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And I dry Haro Gold pears and those

are sliced and dried and then the

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honey caramel is piped on top and

they're double dipped in chocolate.

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I'm doing, honeycomb toffee, everything

with this honey, and then we're using it

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as a, to raise funds for, an organization

called Step Up which is in Muskegon

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started, it's a non profit started by

a group of local physicians who were

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concerned about, children aging, teenagers

aging out of the foster care system.

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Where do they go?

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When they're 18, they're

out on the street.

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So they've provided like housing for them.

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And so we always give a

portion of our sales to them.

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So that that helps them do that.

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We've been doing that for at

least the last five or six years.

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So that's another connection.

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He's not really a farmer.

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But he's beekeeper.

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Cliff Duvernois: To continue

your story here because I do

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I have to ask this question.

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My curiosities is driving me nuts

So you're going from basically

411

being a school psychologist to

all sudden you're signing a lease

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On a building, right?

413

You're paying all this

money to bring equipment in.

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You were talking before about how

you've got these employees working

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for you and all these chefs under you.

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And what did that transition look like?

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I mean, was there any point in time

where you said, I must be out of my mind?

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Patricia Christopher: No, I think it

happened so slowly and everything was

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from necessity for necessity that you just

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Cliff Duvernois: Right.

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Patricia Christopher: That you just

You just went with it and you were

422

just grateful to have these people

on your staff who could help you.

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what's really nice about it is I get to

train other people to do what I do Um,

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I'm on the culinary board for the advisory

board for the culinary school that's in

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Muskegon That's been almost 10 years.

426

But it's wonderful.

427

I have a connection with

the pastry chefs there.

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And I take a lot of interns.

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But that, I think that's a responsibility,

especially the teacher in me.

430

You share the information because

chocolates are so, they're

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so difficult to work with.

432

Sugars, chocolate, there are

temperatures you have to keep in mind.

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There's an entire chemistry behind it.

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And it's important.

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If the European chefs are kind enough

to come over here and teach the American

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chefs how to do things, then we should

be kind enough to teach other people

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who want to learn how to do things.

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How it works.

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If I have someone come in

and say oh, I make macarons.

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But mine are flat or they spread out

or and then I have a whole series of

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questions I asked them to try to get

them to see this is what you did wrong.

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Because I know how to troubleshoot now.

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But it's only because someone else has

taught me that And I've paid attention.

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And so now I can teach someone else too.

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I mean you don't want the crafts to die.

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You want the craft to carry on.

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So that other people can start their

own business or be successful at home.

448

I do a lot of infusions in my

chocolate for the ganache and an

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infusion is where I will take a spice.

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Well, let's just say i'm taking

Mint, so I take peppermint.

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I grow the peppermint in my

yard you in pots in the winter.

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I'm taking the mint, I'm doing infusion in

the heavy cream, so people will come in.

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And I'll start talking about, you

know, the different chocolates

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and what comes from my garden.

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And then they say, oh, I like to

bake too, or oh, I like to make a

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mousse, or I make ice cream, and then

I'll think, they might know, they

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might like to know this information.

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So I tell them how to do an infusion.

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Because I'll say, oh, you may want

to know how to do an infusion to

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get that flavor from your garden

into a, something that you're making

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for your family or your friends.

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So it's about teaching, it's

about making people happy.

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And another thing I think that we're

all, that we all know here working.

464

If someone were to come into town

and stop by a chocolate shop, we

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want them to think that this is the

friendliest place they've ever been.

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They've entered into and maybe the

rest of the town is worth exploring.

467

Maybe everyone else is so friendly.

468

So we always pay attention

to people when they come in.

469

We ask if they've been here before

and we we have a conversation.

470

and we're always thanking

them as they leave.

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Because without them we

wouldn't have a business.

472

and It's not just selling a

product or making a product.

473

It's having a connection with

people so that they'll want

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to come back to Grand Haven.

475

And they'll want to enjoy

what we have to offer.

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So we'll tell people, Oh, if

you will ask people, have you

477

taken a walk on the boardwalk?

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Have you walked out to

the end of the pier?

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Have you taken a hike here?

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Do you know about Rosie Mound park?

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Because we have park systems all over this

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area

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Cliff Duvernois: do a lot

484

Patricia Christopher: County parks.

485

So, it, we do a lot

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of that here.

487

Certainly.

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Cliff Duvernois: If somebody is

coming here, you're talking about

489

before like when they come to

town, they find the chocolate shop.

490

So if somebody comes here to Grand Haven,

they see Patricia's Chocolates, what can

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they experience when they come in here?

492

Talk to us about that.

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Patricia Christopher: Well, when

they first come in, they'll smell.

494

They'll smell the chocolate.

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Um, We have, for those of you who

can't see the chocolate shop, we

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have, house made marshmallows, we dip

them in chocolate, we have all sorts

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of products for hot chocolate, uh,

shortbread cookies packaged differently,

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every, we have chocolates that pair

with wine, we have chocolates infused

499

with local tea from Traverse City.

500

everything here is packaged really nicely.

501

So you could just pick it up and give

it to someone as a hostess gift, or a

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birthday gift, or someone in the hospital.

503

everything, It looks pretty.

504

people often look at the

chocolate and they'll say, Oh,

505

this looks too pretty to eat.

506

So it's, but it is supposed to be edible.

507

I mean, you're supposed

to eat these things.

508

But we want every step

to be, to look nice.

509

So when you see our boxes,

you'll see the chocolates inside.

510

You'll see a little chocolate

map with descriptions.

511

You'll, it's the whole experience.

512

We let people choose their ribbon colors.

513

it's.

514

It's an interaction where if someone

comes in and they want to purchase

515

chocolate for a friend, they're an

integral part of making the purchase

516

because they're making a selection of

which chocolates they want in the box,

517

what the ribbon color is going to be, we

have cards that they can write with them.

518

We do a lot of shipping too.

519

Because people come in and

they, they enjoy the experience.

520

Even people who are just visiting Grand

Haven, they'll come in year after year

521

and then they'll bring other friends.

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People live here will bring in

their friends or their company

523

that's coming from out of state.

524

Because they want them to

have the same experience that.

525

they had had when they first came in.

526

Cliff Duvernois: You were talking

before the microphone went hot

527

about, there's like one lady,

I think you said in California?

528

Patricia Christopher: Oh, there is.

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Cliff Duvernois: like a thousand

pieces of chocolate to her or

530

Patricia Christopher: Yes.

531

And that's my rare peruvian

choclate my Fortunato number four.

532

And it's the 100%.

533

And she orders it maybe

once or twice a year.

534

Whenever she runs out.

535

But it's our 100%, and the

storyline behind the Fortunato No.

536

4 is an incredible story.

537

As it's, um, genetically the mother trees

of all the other cacao varietal types.

538

Cliff Duvernois: Right.

539

Patricia Christopher: There's

a whole history with that.

540

Cliff Duvernois: Yes, Yes, and I wish

we, I wish we had time to cover that

541

because love, absolutely love that story.

542

However, comma, if you're listening,

watching to this, you can come by

543

here and actually see the story

because it's actually on the wall.

544

But Patty, if somebody is

listening to this and they do

545

want to come by, hear the story.

546

They want to smell the chocolate,

they want to buy the chocolate.

547

What's the best way for them

to connect with you online?

548

Where are you located?

549

How can people find you?

550

Patricia Christopher: it's

just patriciouschocolate.

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com.

552

They can call us.

553

They can um, check out our

Facebook page, Instagram page.

554

And they can look at our website.

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Cliff Duvernois: wonderful.

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Patricia Christopher: We

are at 126 Washington.

557

There are three blocks to our downtown

and we're in the middle block.

558

Cliff Duvernois: Okay, perfect.

559

Patty, thank you so much for

taking time to talk with us today.

560

It's, this has been fun,

561

Patricia Christopher: We've

enjoyed having you here, too.

562

Cliff Duvernois: Well, I appreciate that.

563

For our audience, you can always roll

on over to total michigan.com and

564

click on Patty's interview and get

the links that she mentioned above.

565

We'll see you the next time when we

talk to another Michigander, doing

566

some pretty extraordinary things.

567

We'll see you then.