Religion or Relationship? An Insightful Discussion with Kathy Albee

The Bible isn't relevant to you if you do not

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accept what Jesus did on the cross.

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The Bible is not just a book out

there for anybody who wants to just

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maybe follow it to have a good life.

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The Bible is for the children of

God to understand who He is and His

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plan and His purpose for their life.

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It is the road map.

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Cliff Duvernois: Hello, everyone, and

welcome back to Total Michigan, where

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we interview ordinary Michiganders

doing some extraordinary things.

10

I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

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The question for this week, is

God, or even religion for that

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matter, still relevant today?

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Are ancient beliefs and

traditions still meaningful in

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our fast paced, modern world?

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So these are some questions

that we're going to be

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exploring with our guest today.

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She's an ordained minister that

has been serving for over 40 years.

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She's been ministering in the Great

Lakes Bay region, she's ministered around

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the United States, and internationally,

bringing about personal transformation

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for those looking to believe, heal,

and to gain spiritual empowerment.

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Please welcome to the show, the CEO

and founder of Released to Reign,

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based in Saginaw, Michigan, and that

would be the Reverend Kathy Albee.

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Kathy, how are you?

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Kathy Albee: I'm good.

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Thank you, Cliff, for

having me on the show.

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I'm really excited about it.

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Cliff Duvernois: I'm actually really

looking forward to our interview today

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and then the questions that we've,

that we're going to be exploring.

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Before we jump into all of that, if

you would, why don't you just share

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with us what is Released to Reign?

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Kathy Albee: Released to Reign is

a vision that the Lord gave me to

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help Christians to understand their

inheritance as a child of God.

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This is where it all stemmed from.

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I was a Christian for many years

and I just didn't understand what

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the benefits were from the cross.

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I knew that Jesus died for our sins.

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But I didn't understand that he was

called the last Adam for a reason.

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And that is because he reversed

the curse that the first

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Adam brought unto the world.

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And so when people accept the work of the

cross and recognize that they are sinners

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and in need for a savior, and they give

their heart to God, then they get this

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abundance of an inheritance that comes.

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They get salvation, healing, prosperity

sound mind the list just is endless.

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the reason that God called this ministry

Released to Reign R E I G N, is that

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you have to have the knowledge and

the understanding and wisdom, to be

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released from the old Adamic curse or

mentality that even after we give our

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heart to Jesus still tends to work on us.

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There's still those voices that say,

you'll never amount to anything.

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You know, Or God's mad at you

or all of those negativities

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that we fight with as believers.

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And so being released from that Adamic

mentality and curse mentality, you are now

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freed to walk with the real Jesus and, and

to begin to discover who He says you are.

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And that's the key.

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Who does Jesus say you are?

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And it, it takes a, it's a lifetime of

adventure, walking with the King of Kings

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and the Lord of Lords, teaching you and

telling you every day how much you are

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loved, and what it means to be His child.

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Cliff Duvernois: So Where did the

idea of Released to Reign come from?

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Kathy Albee: My own journey.

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I grew up in a religious church.

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A lot of do's and don'ts.

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Projecting to me that God

was just huge up in heaven.

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And that you did the best you could

in this life and then when you got

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up to the pearly gates, hopefully

he would say, well, you did good

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enough, I'll let you come in.

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And so it was uh, from my childhood

right up until I was about 22 years old.

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It was about trying to

be good enough for God.

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Trying to be good enough.

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And I failed miserably.

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Because I'm a human being.

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And so when I was 22 years old,

I had an encounter with the Lord.

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And I began to read.

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the Word of God myself.

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Not what religion was

teaching, but the Word of God.

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And what I found out in there

was Jesus loved me, that He

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wanted a relationship with me.

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As I pursued that relationship

with Him through the Word, not

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through organizations and the church

building and all those things.

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My relationship came from a

relationship with the Word of God.

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And I studied it from cover to cover.

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And still do, 45 years later.

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And that's where I found the Lord.

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And so I Released to Reign was

for me first, that I was released

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from the bondage of works.

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And could finally reign with Jesus

Christ as his child because of his blood.

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Wow.

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It went from religious duty

to serving out of love.

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Not fear and dread.

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But serving out of my love for the Lord.

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Cliff Duvernois: Do you think there's

a lot of other people out there that

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see this as well, that might be saying

to themselves, I'll be, I'll never

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have enough to get in the kingdom of

God or to go to heaven, and they just,

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they just walk away from the church?

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Kathy Albee: Mm hmm.

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I see it all the time.

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Cliff Duvernois: Why is that?

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Kathy Albee: Well, the background is, for

most people, the same as it was for me.

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It's a doctrine.

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It's a training, an underlying

teaching that comes out of religion.

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Not relationship.

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Religion.

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Well meaning religions.

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there are many.

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We, we talk about, Islam, Buddhism,

Hinduism, a lot of the world religions.

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They are all based on your works.

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Even Hindu, if you, be good enough, you

will be reincarnated as something good.

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If you do bad, you will be

reincarnated maybe as a starving child.

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But most religion, world religions and

such, it's all about works to get to God.

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Christianity is the only one that

says it's not about your works.

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It's about what Jesus did on the cross.

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That Jesus died for the sins of mankind.

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He's the only one that did die.

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When you are caught up in that background

of earning, it's very hard to shift that.

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And I have found that the only way

I see people really shift is through

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knowledge and understanding, and in

right teaching and right training.

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And that's what I do at Released to Reign.

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Not only do I work in the community

with business leaders, and we hold these

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big events, you know, at the Horizons,

and, have guest speakers come in and

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do all that, but I also do one on

one sessions with people to help them

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weed out, to what is that stronghold

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that I can't get past to be successful.

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Is it mom's voice?

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Dad's voice?

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Is it, my, rapist's voice?

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You know, all those

things that happen to us.

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Those are voices that tend to direct us.

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And so when you weed out what those

things are, and you, you correct

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them with what Jesus says about

you, your whole life transforms.

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Your whole life transforms.

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And for many years the church was just

about, do you know what Jesus says?

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Your savior?

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You know, you should ask

them right now because if you

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died today, you'd go to hell.

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And so people would say, yeah,

I'll say the sinner's prayer

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because I don't want to go to hell.

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Well, I call that fire insurance.

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They, they only do it so

they don't go to hell.

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But there's no relationship

involved in that.

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And so I don't approach

people in that manner.

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I find that my life and, my joy

and my happiness the love of God

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in my heart is what draws people.

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And they'll say what is it about you?

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What is different about you?

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And then I have that

opportunity to say chokes me up

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Let me tell you about

the Jesus that I know.

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Let me share with you about

the father that I know.

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And let me share with you about the Holy

Spirit who is my life coach my trainer.

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Let me tell you about who they are.

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And that's what captivates people

because it is the goodness of God

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that leadeth men to repentance.

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It's not the fire insurance method.

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And so I love this ministry.

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I love what God is doing through

Released to Reign because people

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come in and get involved in this.

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And they'll say, many times I've

heard people say the number one

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thing about Kathy is that you

feel God's love through her.

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You feel that in her warm hugs.

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That's not to give me glory.

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That is, that's, that shows me that

people are truly seeing Jesus because

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I don't want 'em to see Kathy.

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Kathy's just as screwed

up as everybody else.

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Kathy needed a savior.

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We, we fall in love with Jesus and

then, then it just flows out of us.

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It's just so natural.

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And that's what I see the difference

between religious people and people

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who have the real deal, the real Jesus.

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Cliff Duvernois: When you talked about

how You know, all the other religions

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and a lot of the philosophies that

are out there are based on works.

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Right, where Christianity is not.

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Kathy Albee: It's supposed to not.

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Cliff Duvernois: not.

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So I guess my question to you is

from what you see Why is it that

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some of the churches out there now

lean towards the works that people

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do versus just accepting the gift.

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Kathy Albee: In 2 Corinthians 11 4,

Paul states, I'm worried about you guys.

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Because just as Eve was deceived by

the serpent, so you are being deceived.

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You started out with the real Jesus,

the real gospel, and the real spirit.

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And now you're serving another Jesus,

another gospel, and another spirit.

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There is a counterfeit

spirit that Satan uses.

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We see Satan, with horns and all evil.

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But, oh, he is much more dangerous

when he comes as an angel of light.

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And that's what that

scripture, goes on to say.

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What he motivates, what the reward

of is for religion, is pride.

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That I can say, look how good I did.

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Or, will you pat me on the back?

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Or, or pat myself on the back.

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And so that's why it's so tempting for

Christians to fall into that realm.

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Because pride feels good.

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Pride says, I'm finally making it.

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I'm finally doing something.

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But Jesus said, he who saves

his life shall lose it.

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But he who loses his life for my

sake in the gospel shall find it.

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It's when we humble ourselves that

we really get to know the true Jesus.

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There's two kinds of love.

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There's human love and

then there's agape love.

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And A lot of Christians

don't understand that.

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Like I said, we look at

the Bible as a rule book.

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But when you can walk in the love of

God, when you can see somebody in the

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love of God versus yourself, you've

come, you've mastered it, right there.

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Because you have to be able to

see all people with His eyes.

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And if you can, you can

see the good in the people.

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Even your enemies.

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Because, you know, even the

people who persecute us.

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God told me a long time ago, Kath,

I, well, will something happen?

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And I said, how dare they do that to me?

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And he said, Kath,

opportunity or opposition?

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If it's not about you, you can see, look

beyond, why is that person doing that?

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What did they say that for?

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What's troubling them?

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What's oppressing them?

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Do you care more about yourself

or do you care more about them?

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So a lot of times when God allows

opposition in my life is nobody likes it.

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But I've learned.

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Okay, God, why have you allowed

this person to come across my path?

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And all they need to see is you.

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it's not about me.

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I don't get offended

because it's not about me.

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It's about him, an opportunity.

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Cliff Duvernois: So I understand

that this, the, the statement that

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you made about, you know, leaders

in the church can be deceived.

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So I guess my next question is, is that,

do you feel that also, too, like part

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of this is power, control, manipulation

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Kathy Albee: Well, sure.

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That's all part of pride.

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That's all part of pride.

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if I will do anything I can to get to

the top, no matter who I have to step on.

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I look at a lot of the, and

I'm not judging, I, I have

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no right to judge anybody.

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But I look at, like, some of the

churches that have 10, 000 plus people,

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you know, 30 40 50,000 people, and,

I see that what has happened is we've

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slid off into knowing and serving

God is just all about you being

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happy, you being blessed, you being

successful, give, uh, yeah, give to me.

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and then God will bless

you, type of thing.

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That's not what Released

to Reign is all about.

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We, we are not about that.

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We are about, teaching people

that humility is the key.

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Washing, uh, another person's feet.

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To keep, to be a great

leader, you have to be humble.

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You have to recognize.

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That the gift you have been

given, whether, there's many

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different, gifts that God gives us.

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You know, like, maybe

you're smart with finances.

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Or, uh, You're really great at

interviewing people, um, all, all,

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yeah, all those different great

things, all these different gifts.

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But if we steal from God the glory,

if we say, wow, look at how great

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I am, then we've missed the mark.

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And that's where Satan tempts

the church to fall away.

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Because it's, it's, it's more

so about me and my status.

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And, yeah.

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Cliff Duvernois: Okay, For audience,

we're going to take a quick break and

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thank our sponsors when we come back.

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We're going to delve a lot more into this

topic and we'll see you after the break.

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Hello, everyone, and welcome back to

Total Michigan, where we interview

267

ordinary Michiganders doing some

pretty extraordinary things.

268

I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

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Today, we are talking with the Reverend

Kathy Albee, and we're pursuing some

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questions of a spiritual nature.

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So the question I do want to explore, it

was the question that I opened with for

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today's show, and that is simply this.

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Is the Bible even relevant today

for a collection of stories

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that starts 4, 000 years ago?

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Is it even relevant today to

the, to the modern person?

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Kathy Albee: I believe so.

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The Bible, has literally

been my life for 45 years.

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And, when I look at the Bible,

I don't just see a book.

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I see a heartbeat.

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I can see that this is how God

communicates with his creation.

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It's, it's his way.

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It's like we text today, right?

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We communicate with texts and

emails and all that kind of stuff

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and share with each other whatever.

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But with God the word is his word to us.

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It's a love letter to us.

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It just depends on, if you read

it without the Holy Spirit, if you

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read it just without God's guidance,

it'll be, it'll confound you.

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It'll confuse you.

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You'll see a God of wrath and

vengeance in the Old Testament.

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And, it's, it can be confusing.

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But we really do need the Holy Spirit to

help us to discern what we're reading.

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The Bible, with the Old

Covenant, is story after story

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of God's relationship with man.

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And how man, it, it looks like

what people say in the Old

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Covenant, God was a God of wrath.

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you know, he'd burn them up

and he'd do all these things.

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But God's wrath was against the evil.

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Against his people.

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Satan was in the world.

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God was always trying to

reach out to his people.

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Truth is, that in the Old Testament,

when God would bless Israel, bless

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his chosen people, uh, after a while

they got where they started to like

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the things of the world and they

began to lose their love for God.

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And then they opened the door

for the enemy to come in.

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And then they would begin to

sacrifice to idols and the god of

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Baal and all those kinds of things.

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And so then God would have to

come in and clean up the house.

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He would have to come in and correct and

remove the things that were not good.

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But you also hear stories of Moses

and Abraham and Isaac and Jacob.

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Solomon.

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And they're just beautiful love

stories, beautiful love relationships

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that God had with those people that,

were leading his people at that time.

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And from the beginning, God said in the

Old Testament that a Savior would come.

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It was right there in the beginning.

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And you can find Jesus over

and over in the Old Covenant.

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Especially Isaiah, where Isaiah

prophesies of Jesus coming.

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And then you get into the New

Testament, and you see God's

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wrath is, is deterred now.

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The blood of Jesus paid

the sin debt in full.

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And now it's about relationship.

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It's no longer under the

curse, like I spoke earlier.

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We're not under that curse.

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When you read the Bible.

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And it, it gives you

direction on how to live.

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It's a beautiful love story of

how God redeemed us even when

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we couldn't redeem ourselves.

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Cliff Duvernois: So I'm going

to push you a little bit on this

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particular one here, and I understand

everything that you just said.

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But how does a modern person

look at the Bible today and say,

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how does this apply to me today?

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Kathy Albee: That's a tough

question because the Bible is not

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for anybody but the Christian.

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The Bible isn't relevant to you if you do

not accept what Jesus did on the cross.

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Because we are born into

this world as God's creation.

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But it's only when we accept Jesus

Christ as our Lord and Savior that we

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are adopted into the kingdom of God.

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Therefore, we become sons and daughters.

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The Bible is not just a book out

there for anybody who wants to just

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maybe follow it to have a good life.

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The Bible is for the children of

God to understand who He is and His

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plan and His purpose for their life.

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It is the road map.

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Cliff Duvernois: One of the things

we were talking about before the

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break, and I can't help it to go

back to the Prosperity Gospel.

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And I say this because like I had an

experience, there's a podcast that I was

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listening to for for a number of months.

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And I stopped listening to it

because I realized that the guy

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would stand up, give a sermon, but

he wouldn't quote any scriptures.

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It was just God wants the best for you.

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God wants your business to be successful.

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God wants to cure your cancer.

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When it comes to the Prosperity Gospel and

just, only good news, only good news, what

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are, what are like some of the pitfalls

and dangers of subscribing to that?

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Kathy Albee: What comes to my mind

is Romans 8:28, that all things work

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together for the good to those who love

the Lord, who are the called, according

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to His purpose, who are the called.

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So, when you are a believer,

you are the called.

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When you've accepted the blood of Jesus

Christ, recognized you're a sinner,

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and that you needed a Savior, and

you become engrafted into the kingdom

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of God and become his child now.

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Then that promise applies to you.

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That all things work together for the

good in your life, even the bad things.

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The rain falls on the just and the unjust.

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We all live in this world.

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Good things happen to bad people.

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Bad things happen to good people.

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I mean, we were, it's just,

you can just look and see.

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As a believer, we are promised to

hang on when something bad happens.

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Six months ago, I had

a massive heart attack.

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And, I almost died.

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And I don't want to take too

long highlighting on that.

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But I am a miracle sitting here today.

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And I said to God, I've been through, four

major car accidents, et cetera, et cetera.

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I faced death many times

in my Christian life.

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But when I said to him, what

good could have come out of this?

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I had, um, a daughter who was struggling

and been praying for her for 20 years.

378

And the number one thing

that happened after my heart

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attack was she got delivered.

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She was so transformed that I

don't know who she is right now.

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she, I'm really exploring

her as a Christian.

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She's the most beautiful

creature on the planet right now.

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And so when I, I look at, it took my

heart attack to wake my daughter up.

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And my other two daughters too.

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I've just seen such a transformation.

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I've seen my ministry transformed

since my heart attack.

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I've seen doors open

since my heart attack.

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So I fully understand that all

things work together for the good.

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So to think that Serving God means

nothing bad should ever happen to you.

390

And if you just claim it and

name it and it's gonna come.

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And God's like a big master puppet up in

the sky that if you just have enough faith

392

and you can dictate to God what you want.

393

That's all bull.

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That's all, that's not truth.

395

That's not doctrine.

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And Jesus said these

397

He said, I have told you this so that in

me you will have peace and confidence.

398

In the world, you will have tribulations,

trials, distresses, and frustration.

399

But I say, be of good cheer, take courage.

400

for I have overcome the world.

401

And so this gospel, or this doctrine

out there that says if you love

402

God, everything should go your way.

403

Everything should be perfect.

404

It's not the true gospel.

405

Jesus said, if they hated me,

they're going to hate you.

406

But the key is that walking

with Jesus, he gets through it.

407

He's not some god that we

get to know when we die.

408

He is a father.

409

He's a savior.

410

He's a healer.

411

He's a comforter.

412

He's a provider.

413

He's all those things right now.

414

And if we can accept good from the hand

of God, as well as things that can happen,

415

from me neglecting taking care of my body.

416

A car accident where someone

pulls out unexpected.

417

And, you have to be able to accept

the good and the bad in life.

418

Cliff Duvernois: Kathy, if somebody

is listening to this and they are

419

thinking that they would actually

like to get into Like a good church.

420

What would be some of the things that

you would recommend people would look

421

for when trying to find a good church?

422

Kathy Albee: First of all, you want

to explore the doctrine of the church.

423

there, there is an Armenian doctrine.

424

There is, a Calvinistic doctrine.

425

There is a Catholicism doctrine.

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people, a lot of people don't know that.

427

They just think God is just this,

big God and he's over all of it.

428

But it's not.

429

It depends on what doctrine

you've been raised on.

430

What doctrine you want to follow.

431

One time the Lord told me that he

was going to send me to minister

432

to, multiple denominations, which

is what Release Your Rain does.

433

We have people in there

from all denominations.

434

And how do you minister to people that

have all these different doctrines?

435

He said, in each one of the main,

uh, Christian organizations, they've

436

got one thing for sure right.

437

And a few things wrong.

438

He goes, so, focus the

most on the grace doctrine.

439

Focus the most on the doctrine that

that pastor's preaching, that, he is

440

fully aware of the grace message, that

we do not get to God by our works.

441

But through grace, through

the blood of Jesus Christ.

442

I'd love to challenge

people with this right here.

443

I always say, if you were to die today.

444

And was stood before the

pearly gates, and St.

445

Peter said, well, why

should we let you in?

446

What would your answer be?

447

And 90 percent of the people start

off with all their good works.

448

I've done this, I've done

this, I've done this.

449

And they're, and they're trying to say.

450

I tried to please you.

451

I tried to please you, Father,

I tried, please, I hope you're

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merciful and let me come in.

453

And the answer is, uh, no.

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There's only one answer.

455

And that is because of what Jesus did.

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Because of what Jesus did.

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And that is the Grace Doctrine.

458

So, if I were to recommend anybody going

to church, you want to make sure that

459

they are preaching the Grace Doctrine.

460

And then the second, meet with the pastor.

461

The pastor is the covering.

462

He would be your covering.

463

He would pray for you, pray

for your family, et cetera.

464

And make sure you have a

connection with the pastor's heart.

465

Make that connection.

466

And then third, I would recommend

personally a church that has, a wonderful

467

worship where you are really in the

presence of God in worship and just

468

Just go within there and let the world

go behind and, and worship the Lord.

469

And then, programs, about grace for

yourself, teaching, classes and such.

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And especially for the children.

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That the children are taught

a grace doctrine, not, you

472

know, you better or else.

473

I would look for churches too that

have great community outreach,

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that are working outside of the

four walls, that want to see, God

475

move in, in the, byway marketplace.

476

Absolutely.

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There are five major needs

of every human being.

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And that's what makes you

get out of bed every day.

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Number one is love.

480

And we are, we are, we

are born into human love.

481

We want our parents love,

our siblings love, whatever.

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Love is a big, big, big thing.

483

But it's not until we accept Jesus

Christ as our Lord and Savior

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that we experience agape love.

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That we experience God's love.

486

There's none like His love.

487

That's not human love.

488

God's love is, is, uh, love

is patient, love is kind, love

489

is good, all, all of that.

490

And, love is a, a strong motivator

for you to get out of bed.

491

And the second thing is your identity.

492

Your identity is more important to

you than you would ever comprehend.

493

And a lot of people don't know that.

494

But, it's like, I always ask people this,

these questions, um, God's If you found

495

out that you were adopted, seriously,

adopted, blew your mind, papers come

496

out, you know, and, and, and your mother

and your adoptive father never told you.

497

And now you know.

498

So what would be the first

thing that would hit you?

499

What do you think it would be?

500

Cliff Duvernois: You're

asking me a question?

501

Kathy Albee: what do you Nobody ever asks

502

Oh, yeah.

503

What, what do you think would be the

number one thing you would want if you

504

found out you truly were adopted, that

your mom and dad were not your real mom

505

and dad, your brothers and sisters were

not your real brothers and sisters?

506

What would you want the most?

507

Cliff Duvernois: Probably to

find out who my real parents are.

508

Because I want to know where I came from.

509

Kathy Albee: from.

510

Exactly.

511

Your identity is massive

in the human mind.

512

And the beauty of Christianity

is that you can bypass your

513

birth parents in the flesh.

514

And you can find out that

God is your real dad.

515

And your identity is in Him alone.

516

And then acceptance.

517

That God accepts us no matter what.

518

When we falter and we fail, religion says.

519

You know, God's mad at you.

520

God's gonna turn his back on

you and all that kind of stuff.

521

But the Bible says to run

boldly to the throne of grace

522

to find help in a time of need.

523

God's the one you run

to when you screw up.

524

You don't run away.

525

And then last of all, significance.

526

Every one of us have to feel

significant that our work on this

527

earth is making a difference,

making an impact, somehow, someway.

528

Whether you're, you're a mom, you know,

just making, uh, feeling significance

529

of raising your children and, uh, in the

workforce and, uh, business owners and Uh,

530

artists and, like I said, interviewers.

531

You know, everybody's,

Everybody's gift counts.

532

My dentist, I love her.

533

I love her.

534

I always tell her, what

would I do without you?

535

You know, she's awesome at what she does.

536

The guy who fixes my car, he's brilliant.

537

He knows exactly how to tell

me what to do with my car.

538

I mean, the list goes on.

539

And so everybody is

significant in that way.

540

But when you begin to see your

significance, not only in the gifts

541

that God gave you in this world.

542

But that your significance, most

of all, is being willing to be a

543

yielded vessel that the Holy Spirit,

Jesus, the Father can work through

544

to touch a life, to save a life, to

change a life, it's off the chart.

545

It's, it surpasses any worldly

significance we could ever

546

get to just be used by God.

547

And I can say thank you, Cliff,

for using that gift to allow me to

548

share the voice of God for people.

549

To really help them to

know that He loves them.

550

So, thanks for sharing your gift with me.

551

Cliff Duvernois: You're welcome.

552

And Kathy if somebody is listening

to this maybe they've got some follow

553

up questions for you they just want

to reach out learn more about what

554

you're doing Released to Reign.

555

What would be the best

way for them to do that?

556

Kathy Albee: My phone, just give me a

call and please set up appointments.

557

558

And, um, my email is albee.

559

kathleen at yahoo.

560

com.

561

Just reach out and, uh, I will respond.

562

And I love the fact, too, like,

a lot of people it will come to

563

me for the one on one sessions

because they maybe are struggling.

564

Like I do a lot of marital counseling

and sexual abuse, counseling

565

all, right across the board.

566

it's just, uh, a wonderful thing

to be able to do the one on one.

567

And to root out, like I said

earlier, strongholds and things

568

that people struggle with.

569

Like I really want, I want to go back

to church, but something's stopping me.

570

I, I just, every time I think I'm

gonna go, then something comes over me.

571

that might be a stronghold.

572

That might be something

that you need to weed out.

573

And that's what I do on the

one on one sessions, so.

574

Cliff Duvernois: Excellent

Kathy, thank you so.

575

much for taking time

to chat with us today.

576

Really do appreciate it

577

Kathy Albee: I've enjoyed it very much.

578

Cliff Duvernois: So have I.

579

So have I.

580

for our audience, you can always

roll on over to TotalMichigan.

581

com and click on Kathy's

interview and, uh, get the

582

links that she mentioned above.

583

We will catch you next week when we

talk to another Michigander doing

584

some pretty extraordinary things.

585

We'll see you then.