Pigeon Hill Brewing: Crafting a Community with Michael Brower

Oh, it was terrifying.

2

And I'm just gonna head off this

question if it comes up at the end.

3

But we didn't expect to run

out of beer our first June.

4

We opened in March, the first

weekend of June, our first year,

5

we ran out of beer after an event

called Pub Pedal here in Muskegon.

6

And that drove us to open up our

first production facility way ahead

7

of the schedule that we had in our

minds as something that was possible.

8

Cliff Duvernois: Hello, everyone.

9

Welcome back to Total Michigan, where

we interview ordinary Michiganders

10

doing some pretty extraordinary things.

11

I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

12

So today I'm over in Muskegon.

13

And of course, when I'm going anywhere

to some certain area, booze will always

14

be involved at some point in time.

15

And there's this one company in

particular that I have seen throughout

16

my travels in Michigan, whether

it's sometimes on the racks on the

17

stove and in various shops off.

18

So, for instance, if you go and

listen to the interview with

19

Cathy from the wicked sister they

actually serve the products there.

20

And so I'm over here with

a very proud co owner.

21

Thank you.

22

Co founder, Chief Brand Officer

of Pigeon Hill Brewing Company.

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That would be Michael Brower.

24

Michael, how are you?

25

Michael Brower: I'm doing well.

26

It's a beautiful day in Michigan and any

day it's beautiful before midsummer hits.

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You know, it's a good day.

28

Cliff DuVernois (2): Oh man.

29

I tell you, it was a beautiful

drive on the way over here.

30

I was like, man, why can't

every day be like this?

31

We're saying goodbye

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Michael Brower: winter.

33

Yes, finally saying goodbye to

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Cliff DuVernois (2):

saying goodbye to winter.

35

Of course we say that and we'll get

dumped with six inches of snow tomorrow.

36

So anyways, Michael, if you would

just take a couple minutes and just

37

share with the audience, what is

the Pigeon Hill Brewing Company?

38

Michael Brower: Absolutely.

39

Uh, We opened up, uh, 10, just

40

We started out with myself and my two

business partners, Chad and Joel just

41

three guys looking to, to some extent to

escape our professional lives, I think.

42

But also to bring people together

with the one thing that we knew

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we could do that with beer and to

showcase our hometown, Muskegon.

44

Because at the time Muskegon was

still Let's say down on our luck.

45

And we weren't something that people

necessarily thought of when they

46

thought of the best parts of Michigan.

47

And We thought well, you know, we can use

beer to accomplish all of these goals.

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We can escape our corporate jobs,

we can bring people together, and

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we can bring them to Muskegon and

then instill a sense of pride in

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the people who are already here

51

And that's I guess in a very

brief nutshell Who we are,

52

Cliff DuVernois (2): Okay.

53

how we

54

Now, where are you from?

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Are you from Muskegon?

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Michael Brower: I am from a neighborhood

known as Bluffton, which is actually

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where Pigeon Hill Sand Dune was before

it was mined out for cast iron castings.

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They, It was a towering sand

dune that overlooked the, both

59

the big lake, Lake Michigan, and

the little lake, Muskegon Lake.

60

And, it was a tourist attraction

for folks from Detroit and Chicago.

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They mined it out for cast iron castings.

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And now it's actually a man made lake.

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So that was my connection

to the original Pigeon Hill.

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Cliff DuVernois (2): Certainly.

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Now, so you grew up in the area.

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Where did you go to college?

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Michael Brower: I went to Grand

Valley State for undergrad.

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And then I escaped Michigan.

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So, you know, I'm going to the big city.

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I'm never looking back.

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And I went to DePaul in

Chicago for law school.

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I had the car packed up and ready to go.

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And my wife and I came back

home the day after I graduated.

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I was ready to be back.

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Cliff DuVernois (2): You

were ready to be back.

76

So let's take a step back here.

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What did you, what did you

study for your undergrad?

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Michael Brower: Psych

Philosophy double major.

79

Cliff DuVernois (2):

Okay, so you're smart.

80

Michael Brower: Uh, with that

degree combination, I'm not so sure.

81

Cliff DuVernois (2): Uh oh,

then, so you went off to Chicago,

82

Michael Brower: Yeah.

83

Cliff DuVernois (2): then you got what?

84

Michael Brower: my JD, so my Juris

Doctorate, uh, got a law degree.

85

And came back home to practice law.

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following in my grandfather's footsteps.

87

Cliff DuVernois (2): For some reason I

hear a lot of people cheering right now.

88

Michael Brower: Yeah.

89

Well, my job, you know, there are lawyers.

90

And then there are the lawyers

that keep the booze flowing.

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Cliff DuVernois (2): flowing.

92

I I learn something new every day.

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enjoy

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Michael Brower: Yeah, I came back.

95

I actually, I did enjoy

my job, but I knew that I.

96

It's not the path I had

intended to go down.

97

Um, you know, I, I actually had

always wanted to be in this industry.

98

And,

99

Now uNow you talk about the

beverage industry, the beer

100

industry, the service industry

101

the bar industry is how I looked at it.

102

My family has been doing

this for hundreds of years.

103

And when we came to this country,

we opened up a bar first thing.

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Like, Hey, this is what we know.

105

You know, Prohibition

hits kept the bar going.

106

It was a candy store up front, but

my great great grandma put five girls

107

through college and it wasn't with candy.

108

So I knew that this was

where I was going to end up.

109

But I had to make myself marketable.

110

I don't come from money.

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You know, I didn't have

a business background.

112

So go to law school, come back.

113

And, working in liquor law,

and then found my partners,

114

Cliff DuVernois (2): right

here Let's take a step back.

115

What is it about getting a law degree?

116

Because you could have just like,

just from the sounds of it, you

117

could have just jumped right into,

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Michael Brower: I didn't have a

whole lot of business knowledge.

119

I wasn't sure how to

make myself marketable.

120

And my wife wanted to move to Chicago.

121

I had a double major in

psych and philosophy.

122

Not really terminal degrees.

123

And so I sat there and I asked myself,

How do I make all of this work?

124

And I thought, well, you know,

there's, I could just go to law school.

125

I don't wanna say it was on a whim,

but probably more so than most.

126

Cliff DuVernois (2): Okay.

127

Michael Brower: And that's

how I ended up in law school.

128

Cliff DuVernois (2): Okay.

129

you went through law school.

130

Congratulations on that,

by the way, no easy feat.

131

So you go through law school.

132

Now.

133

You said the day after you graduated you

packed up the car, and you're back here.

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Why leave Chicago to come back?

135

Michael Brower: The pace of life

there is not the pace that I

136

wanted for the rest of my life.

137

of my

138

I miss a few things about Chicago.

139

I love Chicago for four days.

140

Um, It's a great town to go see a show,

hit a brewery, get some amazing food.

141

But living there was something

completely different.

142

I missed the pace of life here.

143

I lived a few miles, actually I

probably live farther from Lake

144

Michigan now than I did in Chicago.

145

And I see Lake Michigan every few days.

146

There, it was too much of a headache

to get down to see the big lake.

147

And there, you, you know, they,

they talk in Europe, people work

148

to live, they don't live to work.

149

In Chicago, you live to work.

150

And that's not the life that I wanted.

151

Cliff DuVernois (2): But I could, I

could understand maybe a little bit

152

of trepidation about moving back.

153

Cause you got a law degree.

154

But you're moving back to Muskegon, which

you alluded to at the very beginning

155

was not seeing very many good times.

156

So I can imagine prospects

here weren't that great.

157

Michael Brower: No, um, I

came back without a, I mean,

158

I did not have a job per se.

159

My grandfather came out of retirement

to help me start my own law firm.

160

So, it made for a very

interesting first year.

161

But, uh, by the time things really

started to actually take off,

162

we were starting this project.

163

And it worked out, because, unlike

being in a situation where I worked in

164

a law firm with rigorous requirements,

I was creating my own schedule.

165

And I was able to devote

as much time as needed

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Cliff DuVernois (2): right,

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Michael Brower: To getting

Pigeon Hill off the ground.

168

Cliff DuVernois (2): Certainly now.

169

Let's explore that a little bit

because at some point in time, you

170

met the other owners of this place.

171

And you, you had a meeting and I don't

know how y'all have to share that with

172

Michael Brower: yeah, yeah.

173

Cliff DuVernois (2): pitched the idea

and it just gained momentum from there.

174

So talk to us about that first meeting.

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Michael Brower: Absolutely.

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So a client of mine had

brought me over to his house.

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And he was teaching me how to homebrew.

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And, this is, I'm still

in the back of my head.

179

I have this idea.

180

I'm going to open a bar.

181

But I'm learning to homebrew.

182

And I go to HopCat, and

HopCat's an epiphany for me.

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The first time I went there,

when I, I think I just turned 21.

184

And all of these things are

melding together in my head saying,

185

you don't want to open a bar.

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You want to open a brewery.

187

You know, This is so far different from

what I grew up thinking I wanted to do.

188

But it has the same best

elements, which are creating

189

that communal gathering place.

190

So anyways, taking a long introduction

to that, but, I've got this kind of

191

bouncing around in the back of my head.

192

I'm thinking, I want to open a brewery.

193

I go on to the LST 393, which

is actually, just behind the

194

building that we're in right now.

195

And, I go there for a

young professionals event.

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I've been gone from Muskegon a long time.

197

Don't really know a lot of people here.

198

And

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Cliff DuVernois (2): Sounds familiar.

200

Michael Brower: I go there to meet people.

201

And serving homebrew on

the boat is, Joel Camp.

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He's a CPA by trade.

203

And he had some pretty darn good homebrew.

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So I sat there, I struck up a

conversation, and asked, you know, Have

205

you ever thought about opening a brewery?

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And I think Joel, you know, he's a CPA.

207

So he's running numbers in his head.

208

He's going, okay, this guy's an attorney.

209

I know how much attorneys will cost us.

210

Um, Let's have a meeting.

211

So he invites me out to meet with,

himself and, our third partner, Chad.

212

They had been homebrewers together.

213

They'd been working, you know, in the

early stages of opening a brewery.

214

And so a week later, I found myself

at a meeting with Joel and Chad.

215

We kind of talked through

some very, very basic details.

216

But then they told me the idea they

had for a name, which was Pigeon Hill.

217

And I mentioned I grew up in the

shadow of what used to be Pigeon Hill.

218

It was serendipitous.

219

I went home that night and, told Alana.

220

I think we might need to

have a long talk about this.

221

And, you know, she's always supportive.

222

So the talk was basically me explaining

my trepidation and her saying, just do it.

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Cliff DuVernois (2): love that.

224

Michael Brower: I'm a very lucky guy.

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Cliff DuVernois (2): No doubt.

226

So the idea of Pigeon Hill is born.

227

Three of you come together and you're

like, okay, let's go ahead and do this.

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What was those like first initial steps?

229

What did that look like?

230

Michael Brower: First major hurdle

was just finding a location.

231

You know, at that, well, I

guess figuring out our business

232

partnership and the boring details.

233

But for us, the first thing

that really sticks out in my

234

mind was finding a location.

235

Because Muskegon still to this

day, but especially back then,

236

felt a lot more compartmentalized.

237

And no one was doing anything downtown.

238

But when you say and mean that you

want to be part of the rebirth and

239

resurgence of a city, well, that

really points to the downtown area.

240

Right.

241

And I think a lot of our early

discussions and, a lot, Not the base,

242

just a lot of our efforts were put

into figuring out how we could do

243

this project and have it downtown.

244

Originally, Joel and Chad had

talked about, let's open up a

245

small growler filling station.

246

And I was the one who, for better and

worse, pushed really hard on retail.

247

And so now we're looking well, we

don't just need 500 square feet.

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We need a thousand fifteen hundred two

thousand square feet to make sure that we

249

have adequate retail and production space.

250

And luckily we did find that space in

You know right in downtown Muskegon.

251

Cliff DuVernois (2): So for our

audience that perhaps doesn't

252

know, what is a growler station?

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Michael Brower: A growler station

at that time Now as well would have

254

been a place with limited hours where

you might come in sample something,

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get a growler filled and go.

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it's not a place where you go and

gather and hang out and see live

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music, eat food, play board games.

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These are all some of the favorite

things that, of mine that happened

259

here, you know, pinewood derby

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Cliff DuVernois (2): Yeah,

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right.

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Michael Brower: Uh, it's a place

where you get beer and you leave.

263

Cliff DuVernois (2): So how did

you come across this location?

264

Michael Brower: So, the location

that we are in right now is

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actually our third location.

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we opened up on West Western Avenue

in the spot where Rake Brewing Company

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is, or Rake Beer Project is now.

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That was our original taproom.

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We started there with

a really small system.

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I always say jokingly, but it's not

a joke, that we opened up with what

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little money our wives would let us

take out of the joint bank accounts.

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Um, you know, it was a shoestring budget.

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We built our own tables.

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We, uh, actually spent as much as we

could on the system because that's

275

what made the beer and that was most

important and then cobbled everything

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else together the best we could.

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So we started with that.

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Then we bought what is now sociable.

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Um, it's our, we'll call it entertainment

complex, six lanes of duck pin bowling,

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indoor beer garden, full restaurant bar.

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We bought that space as our

first production facility.

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Because we realized we were

running out of beer left and right.

283

And we had maxed out our space

in that original taproom.

284

So we needed more.

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And at the time Muskegons downtown

corridor still was It was on the up

286

and up, but it wasn't quite there yet.

287

We were able to get real estate at a

price we could not pay for it anymore.

288

Or we you know, we couldn't

even come close, but we were

289

able to find this real estate.

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And it was just it was a beautiful

building former Brunswick Test Facility.

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So the beautiful wood, ceilings

and or wood roof structure.

292

And we bought that started

using that for production.

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Once we realized that space was

getting tight there and that we had

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all of our production in what was then

a really truly developing downtown

295

corridor, we thought okay This isn't

the highest and best use of this space.

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This is one of the busiest

corners and what is becoming

297

the busiest part of Muskegon

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We need to move.

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Production specifically.

300

And that kind of brought us

to, did bring us to this space.

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At the time, we didn't want

to leave the city of Muskegon.

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Because that's, it's

ingrained in who we are.

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We are downtown Muskegon.

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You know, this is what we do.

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And we were struggling to find real

estate that was affordable, that the

306

zoning restrictions would allow us to

build on at a rate we could afford.

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And then, Joel jokingly sent the

city manager an email and asked

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him if he, if the city manager at

the time, if he'd consider selling

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us one of their parking lots.

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And the city manager said, let's talk.

311

And we got this parking lot for

a rate that we could afford.

312

there was a, RFP.

313

Nobody else was interested.

314

There was nothing on

this side of shoreline.

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There was a hotel.

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And there was a restaurant over there.

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I shouldn't say nothing.

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But there was nothing of this

nature on this side of shoreline.

319

And I think everyone else was

afraid to try and do anything here.

320

And we looked at it and said, well, yeah,

that's terrifying, but we can afford it.

321

And it meets it checks every other box.

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So we bought this property.

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We built out the production

facility and white box the tap

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room that we're in right now.

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And then as soon as our lease was

up at our original tap room, we

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built out the brewer's lounge.

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Cliff DuVernois (2): Sweet.

328

For our audience we're going to take

a quick break and thank our sponsors.

329

When we come back we're gonna

talk about the way Pigeon Hill

330

absolutely took off and also what

you can expect when you come here.

331

We'll see you after the break.

332

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enjoying this episode?

333

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334

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335

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338

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341

Cliff DuVernois (2): Hello, everyone.

342

Welcome back to Total Michigan, where

we interview ordinary Michiganders

343

doing some pretty extraordinary things.

344

I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

345

Today, we're talking with Michael

Brower co owner, co founder,

346

chief brand officer of Pigeon Hill

Brewing Company out of Muskegon.

347

And Michael, before the break, we were

basically talking about how every time

348

you seem to have a space, you outgrew it.

349

And Not only that, but it seems

like you're running out of beer.

350

So this tells me things

are taken off for you.

351

what did that really feel like

knowing that, wow, we got to,

352

we got to keep upping our game.

353

We've got to keep producing more beer.

354

what does that feel like?

355

Michael Brower: Oh, it was terrifying.

356

And I'm just gonna head off this

question if it comes up at the end.

357

We're done expanding for now, at least.

358

We have an 18 month pact.

359

No growth for 18 months.

360

Um, you know, the third major

project will do that to you.

361

But, yeah, you know, we set out.

362

Thinking we would certainly grow, of

course that's the goal is to grow.

363

But we didn't expect to run

out of beer our first June.

364

We opened in March, the first

weekend of June, our first year,

365

we ran out of beer after an event

called Pub Pedal here in Muskegon.

366

And that was our first expansion.

367

We had to buy a new seven barrel

fermenters, which were double the size

368

of the first four that we started with.

369

And then As it was actually the

release of a beer called Oatmeal Cream

370

Pie or OCP that led us to realize we

couldn't keep up with demand for it.

371

And that drove us to open up our

first production facility way ahead

372

of the schedule that we had in our

minds as something that was possible.

373

And at that point, we sat

back and realized we just

374

became a production brewery.

375

we went from being your local watering

hole, which is what we opened up as,

376

not saying it was our end aspiration.

377

But we started thinking

that's what we want to be.

378

And to this day, we want

that to remain our focus.

379

But oh, we just became

a production brewery.

380

And, that kind of, I don't want to say

spiraled, but it in many ways just kept

381

exploding one, one thing after another.

382

Well, now we need a sales team.

383

Now we actually need real marketing.

384

Now we need designers to help with labels.

385

And the next thing we knew we're

sitting here in this building, looking

386

around going, how did this happen?

387

Cliff DuVernois (2):

Because it goes by so fast.

388

And, and I can imagine too, because you,

you talked about the marketing there.

389

The fact that you have Pigeon Hill.

390

baked into your brand.

391

Every local on the planet knows it.

392

They're gonna see the sign.

393

They're gonna instantly

recognize what it means.

394

But now it's the brewing company too.

395

So it's almost like you, you've

built into something that really

396

resonates with your local market.

397

Michael Brower: And that was something for

us early on that we thought a lot about.

398

We actually talked about opening up

brands more like Muskegon Brewing Company,

399

which now we're helping some other

folks launch a Muskegon Brewing Company.

400

And we didn't want to be

that geographically tied.

401

But we wanted to be part of local pride.

402

And Pigeon Hill offered this unique

ability to take something that locals

403

knew about, were proud of, cared

about, and folks from Detroit didn't

404

necessarily know about, understand,

care about, but it sounded good.

405

Cliff DuVernois (2): Yes.

406

Michael Brower: it doesn't sound

like just Muskegon Brewing Company.

407

They're like, Oh, Pigeon

Hill, what's that?

408

Which in turn then gives us a chance

to educate, you know, you, you go

409

to, yeah, you go to our website.

410

The story is the most important

part of the About Us page.

411

We are here to spread the gospel

of Muskegon and Pigeon Hill

412

and, proud peoples who have been

brought down a bit over the years

413

and are working our way back up.

414

And I think that's actually what's helped

us resonate so well in areas like Detroit.

415

And you mentioned the Soo and Marquette.

416

These towns that have gone through

similar struggles to our own

417

and are now, you know, they're

finding their new groove.

418

Just like we have here in Muskegon.

419

And I, I think that it's the

story that helps us all resonate.

420

And frankly, I, I think when

you are raised in a town like

421

this, you're a similar people.

422

Cliff DuVernois (2): That's

true, because you all have

423

that shared common experience.

424

you grew up the same neighborhood.

425

You're driving on the same road.

426

So definitely

427

I would like to explore a little bit about

the decision, because you've got, you

428

know, the brewery, you're making brew.

429

And, people are coming here.

430

They're cleaning you out.

431

You're having to buy a new

facility, which is great.

432

But all of a sudden you're thinking,

okay, so let's start shipping our beer

433

all across like the state of Michigan.

434

Talk to us about the decision to do that.

435

Michael Brower: Yeah, this is one where

my business partners might disagree

436

with me a little bit on how it happened.

437

Maybe I just have a bit of PTSD,

438

But, um, I remember we had gotten

our first production facility open.

439

we started with a three

and a half barrel system.

440

A barrel is 31 gallons.

441

We now have a 20 barrel system

with 60 barrel fermenters.

442

So basically scaled up, I'm

not a mathematician, 20 times.

443

And all of a sudden we realized,

well, we can make this beer.

444

But we also have to sell it.

445

Because we were running

out of beer, but that was.

446

20 times smaller.

447

So now we need to sell this beer.

448

And it was one of those few

times I felt like we were a

449

little bit caught off guard.

450

We didn't actually go

into that with a plan.

451

Luckily, that was a time in our

industry where you could still get

452

away with going out without a plan.

453

Um, but it made us sit back

and say, okay, What's next?

454

We have this project underway.

455

We are getting this

brew house, this system.

456

We are going to be able

to produce this much beer.

457

What's next?

458

And for us, the obvious answer was we

start getting it throughout the state.

459

we have a product that we're proud of.

460

And if nothing else, we can put brewed

in beautiful Muskegon, Michigan, which

461

you'll see on almost every can we

make, on these billboards that we are

462

then sending out as advertisements for

Muskegon throughout the state of Michigan.

463

Cliff DuVernois (2): Love it.

464

Every can is almost the

little ambassador for you.

465

Michael Brower: It's the goal,

exported from Muskegon, the

466

exported from Detroit that actually

really struck a note with me.

467

That was a couple of Super Bowls ago.

468

And that really, really

struck a note with me.

469

It was basically folks over

there saying, Look, we're proud.

470

we might be a little bit

different, but we're proud of it.

471

And we're gonna ship the great

things we make to the rest of you.

472

And that was the sentiment we had when

we started statewide distribution.

473

Cliff DuVernois (2): That's a recurring

theme that I've talked about with other

474

business owners that are in either the

food or the beverage industry is the key

475

importance of buying Michigan products,

and using them, and then shipping your

476

products throughout the state of Michigan.

477

And that seems to be a

real source of pride.

478

Michael Brower: Oh, Absolutely.

479

Absolutely.

480

I mean, for us, The ability to

go to the Soo, to go to Wicked

481

Sister, to go to Holton, and buy

my beer, like personal pride, huge.

482

But also just, again, it really for us

is about spreading that Muskegon theme.

483

Cliff DuVernois (2): Yes.

484

Michael Brower: To be able to walk into a

place and see one of my posters that has

485

the words Muskegon, Michigan, as large

as or larger than my logo, I love it.

486

Cliff DuVernois (2): So in the in

the time that we've got remaining if

487

someone were to come here to Pigeon

Hill Brewing here in Muskegon, talk

488

to us about what they can expect

when they walk through the door?

489

Absolutely.

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Michael Brower: Absolutely.

491

So, you've got two choices.

492

It's a choose your own

adventure game from step one.

493

You either come to our classic

tap room to the Brewer's Lounge.

494

Or if you're looking for a little

more excitement, a little more,

495

we're going to say, high energy.

496

You go to sociable, which is my old

production facility that I'd mentioned.

497

I'll talk briefly about Sociable, and

then focus on this because if you're

498

in it for the beer, come see us here.

499

Oh, that was a bad rhyme.

500

Uh, no.

501

Um, what's that?

502

I kind of assumed.

503

So yeah, if you're going out for

dinner and you've got the kids

504

with you, or you've got a group of

friends, Sociable is the place that we

505

invented to give us something to do.

506

Muskegon, when we envisioned that,

really, there wasn't a lot going on yet.

507

Especially in the off season, the

shoulder season, the colder months.

508

There just weren't things we could all do.

509

And we all live downtown.

510

So we envisioned Sociable as a small,

smaller city version of Punchbowl Social.

511

And we've got duck pin bowling, full

restaurant, mid century modern vibes

512

throughout, all Pigeon Hill beer,

more craft cocktails, especially

513

draft cocktails, an arcade.

514

It's a place where you go to get up,

stand up, move around, have a ton of fun.

515

Now, if you're looking for a little more

of a classic, what I call the communal

516

gathering space, classic taproom feel,

then you come to the Brewer's Lounge.

517

And here we're going to have anywhere

from, I will call it 16 to 20 different

518

beers on tap, all of which are, well,

it's not a mix of our mainstays that

519

you can find throughout the state.

520

But also a lot of one offs that have been

created just for the Brewer's Lounge.

521

You're also going to find our board games.

522

Because this is the place where you

come to sit, hang out, low key, relax,

523

enjoy beer, chat, At the moment, we are

actually operating with food trucks.

524

So we, we did have a kitchen, we're

experimenting with some new things, as

525

many folks I think around Michigan are.

526

We've got food trucks, we're working

on adding more food options that are,

527

let's say simple, and also affordable.

528

Because I know that's a huge

concern for everyone right now.

529

And then, On the weekends, if you're here,

depending on the week, we may have events

530

out in our brew house, which is one of

my favorite aspects of this facility.

531

So you walk in, during the week

during, let's say a Tuesday afternoon,

532

you come in, you see wood paneling.

533

the bar was modeled after old

school Brunswick bars and,

534

it's more subdued, relaxed.

535

But on the weekends, if we have an

event, you walk out into our brew house.

536

And you see shiny stainless steel,

you get this more, I'm gonna

537

say industrial feeling, right?

538

You get to you can see where your beer's

made and have an event simultaneously.

539

Cliff DuVernois (2): Sweet.

540

Now, if somebody did come here, what

would be maybe a beer or two that

541

you would recommend that they try?

542

Michael Brower: I'm actually going

to defer to your beer tender.

543

So we have a, we have phenomenal beers.

544

Our brewers just knock it out

of the park left and right.

545

Even when I ask them for crazy things

like Long John Donuts in a can.

546

Um, I'm really proud of the

team that we've got back there.

547

But, depending on what you're in

the mood for, we're going to have a

548

classic lager like Lake State Lager,

which is our newest statewide release.

549

We'll have, Shifting Sands IPA.

550

We'll also have four or five other

IPAs most weeks, not always, that range

551

from your traditional West Coast to

New England Hazy, to our most, we have

552

the world's most crushable double IPA.

553

It's uh, Rennie, it's 9.

554

4%, drinks like it's about six.

555

It's dangerous.

556

Um, And then, you know, we'll

have stouts and flavored beers.

557

The best thing that I can tell

anybody is walk in and our

558

beer tenders are incredible.

559

They know our beer left

or from front to back.

560

They can sit and talk

you through the menu.

561

And based on what you normally

like, they'll make recommendations.

562

They'll have you try a few things.

563

And I have no doubt they're going to

line you up with two, maybe three of

564

the options that are right for you.

565

Cliff DuVernois (2): Nice.

566

Love it.

567

And Michael, if somebody is listening

to this and they want to come check you

568

out, maybe connect with you online, check

out your website, read more about the

569

story of Pigeon Hill, where can they go?

570

Michael Brower: First step

would be pigeonhillbrew.

571

com.

572

We've got all of the About Us.

573

We've got our food truck calendar.

574

We've got our events calendar.

575

We've got directions to all of our spaces.

576

And then after that socials, you can

always find us on Facebook and Instagram.

577

Cliff DuVernois (2): Michael, thank

you so much for taking time to chat

578

with us today and for the beer.

579

It was absolutely delicious.

580

Cheers Cheers.

581

Yes.

582

And for audience, you can always roll

on over to total michigan dot com.

583

Click on Michael's interview and get

the links that he mentioned above.

584

We'll see you next time when we talk

to another Michigander are doing

585

some pretty extraordinary things.

586

We'll see you then.