Mustard Seed: Transforming Lives from Homelessness to Hope

Hello everyone, this is Cliff from Total Michigan.

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Today's episode is going to contain

some really tough subject matter.

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If you have any aversion at all to

subjects of abuse or neglect or anything

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that might involve little kids, you

will probably want to skip this episode.

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If you've got a huge heart, if you

are driven by compassion, then this

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episode will speak to you and I

ask that you let it be your guide.

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Freedom: The circumstance that

brought me was, um, she had a twin.

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Um, she passed away in November,

so, um, that loss kind of caused a

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whole shake in my world and hers.

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So, we hit a rough patch.

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And the entire last year we

kind of lived in that loop.

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Couldn't stay stable.

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Couldn't keep a job.

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Was afraid of losing her so bad.

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But then um, I said we gotta do

something different with this.

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Cause we can't keep going couch

to couch and not being stable.

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And an opportunity came and my friend

said, Hey, we want to help you.

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There's this place

called the Mustard Seed.

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Can we, can we call them on your behalf?

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And I said, sure.

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And on the day that she passed,

November 28th, I got the

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call that I could come here.

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And we came through the doors with

all the clothes we had on our back,

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some coats and a dirty car seat.

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And now we have so many different things,

like they've found me grief counseling.

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They've helped me rebuild.

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I don't go through the

periods of depression alone.

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Because there's somebody

to come in and check.

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Because I'm going through the

stuff with her, there's that

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friendly reminder that says, Hey.

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You know?

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Uh, gives you more structure.

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Gives you a chance to breathe.

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Take a moment to heal from yourself,

from what's going on around you.

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Cliff Duvernois: Hello everyone

and welcome back to Total Michigan,

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where we interview ordinary

people doing extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

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Today I am in Saginaw.

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I love having, real big

success stories on the show.

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But we also have to remember, too, that

there are people out there that, are

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having a little bit of trouble in life.

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And I love it when people

step up and say, I will help.

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And more than anything, in doing

all the interviews, a name kept

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popping up again and again and

again, and that is the Mustard Seed.

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Um, out of Saginaw.

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So, I reached out to the

ladies over at Mustard Seed.

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And we've got them on the show today.

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We've got Leona Sullivan, one

of the founders of Mustard Seed.

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And we also have Amy Bartels Roe, who's

the executive director of Mustard Seed.

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Amy, just take a minute and

tell us what is Mustard Seed?

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Amy Bartel-Roe: Mustard Seed is a

home for women and women with children

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who are experiencing homelessness.

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We have, roughly 8, 000

square feet of space.

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Two, sides of our building, one for

women and their children, moms and kids,

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and another space for single ladies.

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We welcome our guests who come

to us often from living in their

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cars, living on the streets, from

couch to couch, shelter to shelter.

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And we welcome them, to our beautiful

home on Cherry Street in Saginaw and

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allow them to come in and feel safe and

dignified, and provide them with a warm,

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place to lay their head as they begin

to unpack the stories of their lives

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and what maybe led them to homelessness.

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Cliff Duvernois: I'm a big believer in

vocabulary and the words that you choose.

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And it's interesting that you chose

the word when our guests come to us.

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How important is that?

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Amy Bartel-Roe: It's extremely

important And it truly is.

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Those, the folks that come to

us, we do treat them as guests.

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It's a common term.

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And, these folks have been

case managed their whole life.

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They've been a client.

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They've been participant.

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They've been a, consumer, which are all

very, institutionalized terms if you will.

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And that idea of, of welcoming, a guest.

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we have guests over for dinner.

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We treat them in a certain way.

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We bring out the fancy dishes.

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We make sure the house is

cleaned when we have guests.

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And that's exactly what we

do here at Mustard Seed.

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Cliff Duvernois: Leona, where are

you from and where did you grow

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up?

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Leona-MustardSeed: up

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I grew up in Detroit.

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Cliff Duvernois: Now, what

brought you to Saginaw?

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Leona-MustardSeed: Bishop Buntner.

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I was a religious at the time.

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And he wanted a new director

of Christian service.

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And so he called me up and said,

I'd like to take you out for lunch

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and, interview you for the job.

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And so he came to Detroit and

we went out and that's how I

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Cliff Duvernois: What was it that made you

decide or to start pursuing or going after

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creating Mustard Seed in the first place?

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Leona-MustardSeed: It was

a calling that I felt.

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I wanted to be a little bit more

experiencing living with the poor.

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And living with people who

are on the margins of society.

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I had thought of working

in a homeless shelter.

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And one day I just, at the retreat, I

said, Oh, why don't I just start a place?

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That's how it began.

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And I, when I came back,

I had a friend I was with.

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She said, Oh, you gotta talk to this

sister at, Day House in Detroit,

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which was a, a homeless shelter.

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When I went there, then she introduced

me to, well, I didn't meet her, she

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just told this other woman that I

was interested in starting a shelter.

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That woman called me up two

weeks later and said, Leona, I

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want to start a shelter also.

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And I'd love to do it in Saginaw.

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I said, well, you and

I better get together.

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So she came up.

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And then she was a psychologist,

just a lovely woman.

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She had also, struggled with

alcoholism and was ten years clean.

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And she also had struggled with, bipolar.

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So she understood you know, what

most of our women go through.

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So that was wonderful.

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Because I did not have

that in my background.

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And so then I said, well, there's somebody

else I talked to about five years ago.

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So I called her up and I told her

we were, we wanted to do this.

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Would she like to do it too?

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She said yes.

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That was Rosalie Regal.

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And she was teaching at Saginaw Valley.

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Then I called the bishop.

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And I said, Ken, three of us want

to start a It was a Catholic worker.

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It was the kind of shelter

we wanted to start.

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And, he said, oh, great!

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He said, I've always wanted a

Catholic worker in my diocese.

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That was how it began.

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Cliff Duvernois: Well I ask the

question because starting a shelter

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And I can't help, but to think there's

easier things to do in life like

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brain surgery or something like that.

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that.

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why start?

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Leona-MustardSeed: Well, well,

because it, it was, a response to

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living more radical Christian life.

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We did not take money.

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So we were not paid.

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We just did this.

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Cliff Duvernois: open the doors?

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When was your, when did you first open?

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Well,

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Leona-MustardSeed: well, we

lived together for three months.

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And actually the bishop asked us to

keep a couple, a missionary couple.

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And then we had to go

through the zoning board.

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So the doors really opened

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Cliff Duvernois: And why don't you talk

to us a little bit about some of those

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challenges that popped up along the way to

actually get this, get these doors opened.

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Leona-MustardSeed: The

zoning was one of them.

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And so we, because we were

in a single family home.

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And it was zoned for that.

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We went door to door.

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And we had people in the neighborhood sign

that they were willing to have a shelter.

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In their, yeah, in the neighborhood.

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And so that made a big difference.

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And then we had somebody who said

they would like to come and speak

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before the city council in our favor.

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And so that was the first

big hurdle big hurdle

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Cliff Duvernois: Now Amy you came

onboard at the Mustard Seed about when?

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Amy Bartel-Roe: in

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so I was 20 years old, and,

I was a student at Saginaw

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Valley State University.

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And I had a part time job as the

youth minister at, the cathedral St.

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Mary Cathedral here in Saginaw,

where Leona was a parishioner.

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And, so we just were all connected.

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And so Leona was getting

ready to start Mustard Seed.

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And so I think there were a few days when

I would take kids over to the Mustard Seed

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and to tear out carpet and paint walls

to get the house ready to welcome people.

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So really from the very beginning and

then, I, then I went away to college to

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finish my education for a couple of years.

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And when I came back, I was involved

sometimes a little bit more and sometimes

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not so much throughout those years.

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There was a time when Leona

invited me to be part of a team of

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people who would train volunteers.

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Around 20 10, 20 11 Mustard Seed,

the board of directors began to

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start planning for the future.

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I think Leona, um, knew that she

had, she lived at Mustard Seed

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Leona-MustardSeed: Once Amy

was going to come on staff, my

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bedroom needed to be her office.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So, I said, alright, And I had asked

the board too, I said, I don't want to

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wake up when I'm 80 and find out that

I can't do it and there's no plan.

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One of the men said when

would you like this?

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I said, well, maybe by the time I'm 75.

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If we could have a

director, it would be good.

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The day before I turned 75, Amy

was signed in as the new director.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: Yes, yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Cliff Duvernois: Now, where

are you from originally, Amy?

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Amy Bartel-Roe: I was born

and raised in Saginaw.

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Cliff Duvernois: Sacramento.

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Oh, okay, so you're total local.

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Yeah.

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I'm a For our audience, we're going to

take a quick break and thank our sponsors.

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When we come back, we're going to learn

a lot more about, Mustard Seed and what

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it is they're doing in the community.

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We'll see you after the break.

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Hello everyone, and welcome back to

Total Michigan, where we interview

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ordinary Michiganders doing some

pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

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Today, we are at the

Mustard Seed in Saginaw.

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And I've got Leona Sullivan as well

as Amy Bartell Roe here with me today.

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And what I would like to talk

about first off is, we talked

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about what Mustard Seed is.

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I know there's other shelters

that are in the area.

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So what is it about Mustard

Seed that makes it different?

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Amy Bartel-Roe: So for one thing

Mustard Seed we serve a a pretty

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specific population and that is

just women and women with children

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who are experiencing homelessness.

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We are very blessed in Saginaw to

have a great group of roughly six

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to seven organizations who are

doing the work of serving those

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who are experiencing homelessness.

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And each shelter has its own

niche, if you will, which is

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really a blessing in our community.

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So for example, there's another

home which is Emmaus House, and

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they serve just women, just single

women, who are coming from drug or

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alcohol Treatment or jail or prison.

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And they have a very

specific program for them.

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It's it's transitional living from that

those institutional settings and you know,

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until they are able to, be on their own.

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If there is a mom who is coming from

jail or prison or drug or alcohol

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rehab, Mustard Seed is the place

for her because we accept children.

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And so.

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so really our shelters are all very

unique and we work extremely well

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together to make sure that folks are

off the streets and in, in our shelters.

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And so when we are able to welcome

them from that situation or any other

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situation for that matter, the important

thing is, is that they find a soft

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place to fall here at Mustard Seed.

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And then are able to take a deep breath.

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Um, feel love and mercy and compassion

and care from our staff and our

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volunteers and really from each other.

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Our women do a great job of

coming together with each other

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and supporting one another.

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One of the important questions

that we ask oftentimes, is, What

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is your role in our community?

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Where are you going to fit in?

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Are you going to be a

worker at McDonald's?

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Are you going to be a student?

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Are you going to be a volunteer somewhere?

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You know, What is your purpose?

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And that's a really good

framework from which to build.

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Just the other day I had, one of our

moms said I'm ready to go back to school.

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I want to get finished my education.

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It was interrupted I had all

these kids and, And now I'm ready.

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I had, this is the number of

credit hours that I need toward

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a degree in criminal justice.

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So I'm able to hook her up with one of

our board members has an organization

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that he's part of called Bridge the Gap

that helps with, education, money for,

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toward, law, law enforcement education.

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Yeah.

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So there are just really great things

that happen really on the daily basis.

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Cliff Duvernois: when, when the women

do come here and they're staying here

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is there some kind of a transition to

try to get them out onto their own?

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Can they stay for a

certain period of time?

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How does that work?

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Definitely that

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Amy Bartel-Roe: Definitely

that is the goal.

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so once they're here for a couple of

days, we meet with them and start talking

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about, where were you before this.

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you're here now, and, and

where do you want to be?

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And so sometimes, and it's

different for every person.

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That is something that sets us

apart is we really do meet each

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person right where they're at.

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versus, a program where it's like.

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Fill this box, fill this box,

fill this box, you know, and

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maybe you'll get here, right?

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But we meet our people right where they're

at and really listen to their stories.

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We find out what barriers they might have.

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Like, for example, do they have

their birth certificates with them?

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Do they need to get a state

ID or a driver's license?

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social security cards, things like things

that you need to be able to access,

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really anything including housing.

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Sometimes our guests have not been

to a medical doctor in a long time.

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Maybe they have, mental health

issues that they need to address,

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substance use disorder issues.

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and So we really, work to get

to the bottom of all of that.

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and I know Leona mentioned it just a

little bit, perhaps the most common

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thread of what, what causes homelessness

would be untreated mental illness and

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untreated substance use disorder issues,

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Leona-MustardSeed: And sexual abuse.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: trauma.

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as well on, addressed trauma and so

we know that we need to give our folks

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the time to address those issues to

get into some good work And to really

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begin to heal so that then they

can successfully function in a job.

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Therefore then pay for an

apartment, et cetera, et cetera.

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Leona-MustardSeed: And that's one of

the things that does make us different.

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If the person needs a little longer

time, in order to get some of these other

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things under their belt before they start

moving out, then, we give them that time.

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Yeah,

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Amy Bartel-Roe: so, and

that's very important.

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So the average length of stay,

we would say the average is

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usually like three to six months.

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But some people are shorter than that.

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Sometimes people have gotten a job.

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And they just need a few weeks to

save money for a security deposit.

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Right.

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So they're just here for a few weeks.

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We help them save the money

and, and then they're off.

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They go Able?

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off they go.

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Yep.

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But but for the most part,

the average length of stay

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is about three to six months.

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The way that we are able to do

that because a lot of places

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will say it's 30 days or it's a

hard 60 days or a hard 90 days.

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But, because of the way we fund

ourselves, we are able to, have a

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little, have really leniency with that.

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So, so we are 100 percent privately

funded, with the exception of

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a very small grant that we get

through the city of Saginaw.

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But they're very easy to work with.

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Part of the reason, the main reason

why we don't take government funding

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for our day to day operations is

because it is a lot of red tape.

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Leona-MustardSeed: but but

we do get a lot of HUD money.

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And that has been a great blessing

because having women get help with

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shelter when they move out was a

real game changer when we began that.

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Yes.

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to have a, a future with hope.

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To know that you could

get help with housing.

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Sometimes, they just didn't make enough

money to possibly be able to rent a

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house, raise kids, do all of that.

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that just has been a great,

a great thing for us.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: Yes, what Leona's

talking about is our permanent

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supportive housing grants.

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So, basically, for Mustard Seed,

we have our day to day shelter,

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our everyday, our shelter program.

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And then it's a separate program

called permanent supportive housing.

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So, we manage money from HUD.

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It's a good government program.

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As she said, it, it, people can be

in it for as long as they need to be.

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We have people who then work it

so it goes for rental assistance

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and utility assistance.

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So the participant in that program pays 30

percent of their income toward their rent

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and utilities, which is extremely fair.

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that's what a financial advisor would

tell anyone that you shouldn't be

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spending more than 30 percent you

know toward your living expenses.

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So, so it's very fair.

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And we have people who work themselves

off of that program which is wonderful.

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So they take the assistance

while they need it.

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But again, so that is that's

Good government money.

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And not that the other is the that

the other is not supportive at all.

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It's just Um,

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Leona-MustardSeed: don't want a little

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at times.

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We don't want the program to

be run by what the goals of

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the government funding is.

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Cliff Duvernois: So one of the

things that really struck me when

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I came in here, especially the

first time, how nice this place is.

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Talked to us about your approach to

having just a really nice living space.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: Well, we both could

talk about this for a long time.

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But I think, Leona mentioned it.

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part of her early work, and the vision

and the, uh, the mission and of what

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the mission was formed on is, if you can

imagine the term, radical hospitality.

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So not only do we want to be hospitable.

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We want to be radical about it.

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So we just, we, we say very proudly

that we practice radical hospitality.

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What do you need?

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You know, we just, I, we

just welcomed a woman today.

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She, and this does not happen every day.

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But her worker from community

mental health, I was in

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another part of the building.

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And someone said, there's someone here.

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And I looked and I said,

I don't have anything.

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I don't have an appointment or anything.

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But I came out and it was a community

mental health worker and this woman.

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And I said, hello, you know, she

just said I need a place to stay.

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And it so happened that we

had a room that we had that

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someone had moved out yesterday.

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So we had a volunteer here.

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We were able to turn the room around

and get it, you know ready for her

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Cliff Duvernois: have a facility

like this, because we've talked a lot

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about how it just looks so nice on

the inside from a sponsor standpoint,

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It has just got to be, I would, I

would think that they'd be pleased

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with what it is that you're doing here.

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Because this really is raising the bar

as far as how we're able to help people.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: Absolutely, We are

very blessed to hear, that people

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are all in with Mustard Seed.

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And that they appreciate and recognize,

the things that we've talked about.

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And then in turn want to be part of it.

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Cherry Street, but it also is a part

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of the larger community, and that has

really grown naturally as we've grown.

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seven or eight people, right?

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Roughly a few more, yeah.

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location where we could serve 15 to

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17 people, women, women with children

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an expansion, we are now serving on

a daily basis, 35 to 40 individuals.

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So as Mustard Seed has grown, so

has the response from the community

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and the support from the community.

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Because it makes such a difference.

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It saves lives.

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Yes.

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The work that we do here.

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So back to sponsorships a little bit.

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As I said, our, we are, blessed and

grateful that our community supports us.

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And it is amazing that,

when there's a need.

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without even thinking about it,

without even asking for it, it comes.

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And and I we have to believe

that that's a God thing for sure.

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I'll give you an example.

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We have a big connection with

Saginaw Valley State University.

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So we provide their students

a lot of opportunities to gain

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experience and things like that.

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We have a group of occupational

therapy students right now.

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And in any case, so they're going

to do some life skills classes with

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our guests and things like that.

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But one of the things we've

talked about for a long time

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is having an outdoor play area.

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And that's a great occupational therapy

thing to do for them to design what

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equipment we would want, what they need.

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So they're going to work on that.

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And I wasn't quite certain how

exactly we might pay for that.

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But I'm like, go ahead.

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Do it.

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We'll figure it out.

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I got a call from a Rotary

Club in Frankenmuth.

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And they said, we don't want

to be for profit, but we have

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a lot of extra money right now.

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And so we want to, we want to dwindle our

bank, you know, just so that we're not,

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so that it's being used in the community.

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And I said, how would you feel

about supporting a playground

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project for Mustard Seed?

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And they said, Consider it done.

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I know, right?

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Right?

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Cliff Duvernois: so cool.

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I love

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Amy Bartel-Roe: emailed the

occupational therapy students and

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I'm like, Go for it, you know?

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The sky's the limit.

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And they were like, really?

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You know, they were very excited.

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So it's little things like that.

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And then we have a great

small business community.

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A lot of our small businesses

in Saginaw will do a pick

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up little fundraiser for us.

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Because they care and they

want to be part of it.

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Lots of individual donors.

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We have a program called

Friends of Mustard Seed Shelter.

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And, if anyone would like to learn more

about that, they can visit our website, at

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w, it's, well, it's themustardseedshelter.

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org.

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That's a great way to be a monthly donor.

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if someone is interested in that.

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We have so many other

ways to help out too.

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As I said, Mustard Seed

is all about community.

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I mean, if we had to say the

number of guests that we've served

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over the past almost 30 years.

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It'll be 30 years next year.

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We would be getting

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But if we looked at the number of

people, who have volunteered, donated,

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been part of Mustard Seed in some way.

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We're talking tens of thousands of

people, yeah, that have, yeah, that

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have come together to support and,

So it's a pretty special, thing.

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Cliff Duvernois: One of the things I do

want to talk about here before we wrap

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up is this concert that's going on.

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Tell us about the concert.

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How can people attend the concert?

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Who's going to, who's going to be there?

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Amy Bartel-Roe: There's

a band here in Saginaw.

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They're excellent.

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They're called Stone Street Revival.

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Many people know about them.

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Donnie Brown is their leader.

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And they have a great host of other

musicians that make their band up.

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And they have chosen Mustard

Seed to be a benefactor of these

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concerts that they're doing.

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This year on February 17th at the

Court Street Theater in Saginaw.

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They are doing a show.

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It is called Flatbed Ford.

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And if anyone out there is an Eagles

fan, that is a line in an Eagles song.

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Anyway, it is a tribute to the Eagles.

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Really great music.

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There are two shows for that day.

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One is at 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

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And then an evening show at 7 o'clock.

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Tickets are extremely reasonably priced.

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The matinee show is $15 and

the evening show is $20.

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And these guys are good.

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They're really good musicians.

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So if you're not doing anything.

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Or if you need a, if this, I don't

know when this is going to air,

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but if it's not Valentine's day,

it's a great Valentine's Day gift.

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You know, but anyway.

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We're grateful to, to all of the people

involved in that for supporting us.

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Danny Dog Productions is the

name of the, production company.

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yeah, so that's February 17th.

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I will say one thing.

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We are in the process of really working

to increase the number of emails we have.

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We're going to start doing

monthly email blasts.

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Just a quick little, email

that says what's going on,

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what our current needs are.

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So if you have a church group or a

school group or some sort of group

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that's looking to do some sort of

collection, we always have ideas for that

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of things that we, legitimately need.

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Cliff Duvernois: if people want to

learn more about the Mustard Seed and

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what it is you guys doing, maybe get

some more information on the concert.

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They can do that at your website.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: it's

themustardseedshelter.

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org

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Cliff Duvernois: Leona, Amy, it's been

great having you on the show today.

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Thank you so much for talking to us about

Mustard Seed and what it is you're doing.

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Amy Bartel-Roe: you.

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Thank been a pleasure.

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Cliff Duvernois: you.

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can always roll on over to TotalMichigan.

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com and click on Amy's interview and get

all the links that she mentioned above.

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We'll see you next week when we

talk to another Michigander doing

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some pretty extraordinary things.

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We'll see you then.