Fresher, Local, Better: The Maple Grille Story

Today's episode is brought to you by the Stevens Center

2

for Family Business, whose mission

is to support the success of family

3

businesses through the generations with

education, networking and collaboration.

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Josh Schaeding: I guess we

created a destination restaurant.

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You know, as much as the local

community supports us, we have quite

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a few people that travel, from across

the state just to come here to eat

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and turn around and drive home.

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So that's real flattering that we've

achieved that success over the years.

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Cliff Duvernois: Hello everyone and

welcome to Total Michigan, where we

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interview ordinary Michiganders doing

some pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host Cliff DuVernois.

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So today, I am sitting in Hemlock,

Michigan, just outside of Saginaw.

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And you've probably heard me say this

about a thousand times, but there are

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some people in Saginaw that are just

doing some pretty amazing things.

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And today's guest is no exception to that.

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I am actually at the Maple Grille.

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in Hemlock.

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I am sitting with the

owner Josh Shadian today.

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Josh, how are you?

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Josh Schaeding: Fantastic.

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Cliff Duvernois: Why don't you

tell us what is the Maple Grille?

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Josh Schaeding: Well, we're a local

restaurant serving local products.

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Buy from farmers, you know,

locally, most of our stuff.

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Serving food grilled over a wood fire.

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We don't have a microwave.

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We don't have stoves in the back.

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So everything you see is

an open kitchen out front.

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Cooked over wood, wood fire pizza oven.

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And, uh, we grow a lot of

our produce here on site.

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Cliff Duvernois: So it's

complete farm to table.

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Josh Schaeding: Yep, it is.

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And, um, I've heard people

refer to it as nose to tail.

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Cause we buy, we use the

whole, we use a whole animal.

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We don't still just buy, specific cuts.

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you know, we, we bring in a whole

cow, whole lambs and whole hogs.

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Cliff Duvernois: And we're definitely

going to explore that.Before we jump in,

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Why don't you tell us a little bit about

where you're from and where you grew up.

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Josh Schaeding: I grew up about you know

5 miles away right in Shields just west of

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Saginaw here um attending Norther Michigan

University their culinary arts program.

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And, um, pretty much stayed

in the area my whole life.

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Cliff Duvernois: Why did you

decide to go into culinary arts?

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Josh Schaeding: I enjoyed

cooking when I was younger.

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You know, I was kind of

raised out in the garden.

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Cooking with my mom.

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Just a lot of stuff I

really enjoyed cooking.

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My first job was at Burger King.

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My second job was at

the Tony's in Shields.

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And I grew to like the fast

pacedness of the restaurant industry.

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And, I feel like you're always

working hard and doing something

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and accomplishing something.

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Cliff Duvernois: Was the Food Channel

ever a part of your life growing up?

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Did you have any chefs that were heroes

of yours or that you thought, wow, if

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I could be like that guy or that gal?

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Josh Schaeding: I guess I didn't pay

any attention to celebrity chefs.

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That was starting to become a thing

I think when I was a teenager.

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I guess I'd probably seen

Julia Childs a few times on TV.

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I just remember going out to eat.

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When we did go out to eat, when we

traveled, you know, going out to eat and

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always remembering the, the restaurants

we went to that I really enjoyed.

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Cliff Duvernois: So you went to college at

Northern, got your degree in, in culinary.

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What made you decide to think

about opening your own place?

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Josh Schaeding: Well, we started cooking

maple syrup in our backyard as a hobby.

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Probably was doing it for six,

seven years, before we started this.

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uh, the property I hunt, it's my

brother in law's parents at the time.

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They had asked permission to

tap more maple trees besides

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the one in my backyard.

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So instead of doing, you know, 30, 40

taps, we jumped up to 250, I think the

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first year out there and, um, had to

build an evaporator to handle all that.

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So we build it out out front of my

family's construction company on

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Gratiot here out in the front yard.

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And, uh, I ended up drawing a

lot of attention, when we were

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cooking maple syrup out there.

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Everybody thought we were cooking ribs.

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And so, um, by chance, at the end of

maple syrup season, I lost my job and

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decided to start a restaurant here.

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Cliff Duvernois: Running

a restaurant is tough.

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And especially when you're just,

you're starting one, and you take your

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location, you're located, you're in

the, you're in Hemlock, but you're out

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kind of like in the middle of nowhere.

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So it seems like all these things

would be working against you.

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But you still decided to do it anyways.

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Josh Schaeding: I guess

the Field of Dreams thing.

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worked, you know.

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If you, if you build it,

they will come, right?

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Um, No, there's you know, I just

years ago when I worked for another

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restaurant owner, he's always

said rooftops are important.

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You know.

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How many rooftops, the

more rooftops around you,

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Cliff Duvernois: foot traffic, all

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Josh Schaeding: Yeah, and um, we, I guess

we created a destination restaurant.

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You know, as much as the local

community supports us, we have quite

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a few people that travel, from across

the state just to come here to eat

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and turn around and drive home.

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So that's real flattering that we've

achieved that success over the years.

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Cliff Duvernois: When you put the

restaurant together, and of course,

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one of the main considerations is, what

is the food that we're going to serve?

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What is, like the overall vibe that

we want to people have when they

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come here, and you opted to do.

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A farm to table restaurant.

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Why go that route versus maybe

just opening up like a greasy

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spoon or someplace like that.

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Josh Schaeding: Uh, The

food is much better.

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Um, Fresher, local.

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Um, We support the local economy and,

um, money think that uh, you know, it's

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important to keep the food miles down.

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Food's not traveling across the country.

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Cliff Duvernois: You got the idea

to start this particular restaurant.

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Why don't you talk to us about

one, like maybe one or two of the

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key challenges that you had just

getting the place up and running.

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Josh Schaeding: I was fortunate, like I

said, that my family owned the building.

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So I didn't, you know, have to jump

into a big lease agreement or try

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to raise capital to buy a building.

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Before we even opened, the first thing was

to get the half acre garden in the back.

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So I had to clear all the

trees because it was a woodlot.

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And break ground back there to

get, the garden in and the high

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fence up to keep the deer out.

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Cause like you said, we are in

the middle of nowhere, kinda,

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there's deer everywhere, raccoons.

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We got a flock of

chickens before we opened.

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Get our own eggs.

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And so all that, being said, and

not having the capital to put

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in a real commercial kitchen.

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So we opted, to do some

wood fire grills outside.

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so we only cooked outside

the first two years.

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You know, cause we didn't

have anything inside.

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We did have a small seating area

in the front of the building

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and a small prep kitchen.

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And after the second year being

outside, we were able to make that

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jump inside and start building the

indoor grill and getting all the

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construction equipment out here and

converting the whole building over.

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Cliff Duvernois: I was thinking about this

this saying that I heard many moons ago is

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when you don't have money you have ideas.

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So it's very clever that you didn't

get hung up on the fact that you

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had to have a professional kitchen.

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And we got to spend 100 grand

getting all this equipment in here.

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You were like, Well, what do we have?

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We've got wood fire.

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So let's go that route.

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Is this something that you've been

cooking over a fire like all of your life?

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Is this

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Josh Schaeding: Yeah, I guess, especially

once I became an adult bought a house, our

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grill was always just a regular charcoal

grill, never owned a propane grill.

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So I was always too cheap to buy charcoal.

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And we got a small wood

light in our backyard.

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So it was always just picking up sticks

and cooking over wood and really how it

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transitioned into what we do right now.

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Cliff Duvernois: Your restaurant opens up.

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And one of the thing of course,

is getting people to come here.

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And there seems to be like, like almost

like two groups of people that would come.

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You got those that just find you.

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And, but then there's others

that have that have heard

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about you, seen you online.

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How did you start going about

marketing your restaurant to

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get people to set, to come out

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Josh Schaeding: well just word of mouth.

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I said, we were on the side of the road.

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So, you know, we had a

lot of traffic driving by.

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But I'm really just word of mouth.

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I was against Facebook out of the gate.

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So I had a hard time jumping into

doing Facebook to push the restaurant.

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I guess Facebook's probably

been the biggest influencer

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in getting the word out there.

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Um, Free advertising.

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Has always made it a point to, we've

minimally advertised, you know, we got

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a church bulletin ad we do every year.

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I've only done one billboard just for fun.

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Cause the, one of the local sales rep for

the billboard company eats here regularly.

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Um, but yeah, that's just kind of

been it, taking care of the people

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that have taken care of us and

given back to the community, but,

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Yeah, it's just been a ton of fun.

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Cliff Duvernois: When I was here

having dinner the other night, I

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sat next to this couple, Jeff and

Lisa, and they were saying that they

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found this place because they drove

by and saw you out there cooking.

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When you talked before about a lot

of that drive by traffic, do you find

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many people that have come here that

have driven by, seen you, and said,

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hey, let's turn around and check this

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Josh Schaeding: Yeah, weekly I

talk to people that have been like,

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you know, I've been driving by

here for years, finally came in.

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I don't know if we just put a trailer

out, front that we store our potatoes in.

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And we had that trailer

wrapped, with the logo on it.

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And uh, so it's kind of our

cold storage trailer right now.

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But it's also a beer trailer.

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So I think that in the past few

months has helped out quite a bit.

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Cause we've never had a sign out front.

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It's always just been a

building with a grill out front.

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And we finally got a real sign on

the front of the building that's

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illuminated just a few months ago.

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And um, I guess the local sign

guy that owns the company,

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we got it from years ago.

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He said, you know, I'll

never sell you a sign.

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He's like, you don't need it.

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And, um, he's like, your stuff's good.

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You're gonna do good by word of mouth.

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My thought thing has always been, you

know, grow real, slow progression.

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and not, I never wanted to grow too fast.

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Cliff Duvernois: And it says

something too that you create this

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restaurant, it's farm to table.

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And you've just been so successful.

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I mean, you've been here

longer than a decade.

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What are some of the things that

you would attribute that success to?

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Josh Schaeding: Guess just hard work.

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the community.

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Uh, the more you give, the more you get.

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So we try to give back as much as we can.

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you know, That and just working hard.

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staying debt free on the whole thing.

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You know, not taking out

loans to move forward.

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Yeah, just picking away at it.

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You know, put the money

back into it when we can.

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Not paying myself for years,

just, just getting by.

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And we've gotten to a point where

I think we're pretty good now.

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Cliff Duvernois: For our audience,

we're going to take a quick

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break and thank our sponsors.

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When we come back, we're going to

talk to Josh a lot more about the

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Maple Grille, the menu, and what

you can expect when you come here.

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We'll see you after the break.

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Hello everyone, and welcome back to

Total Michigan, where we interview

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ordinary Michiganders doing some

pretty extraordinary things.

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I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

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Today, we're talking with Josh Schaeding

from the Maple Grille, And, uh, Josh,

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before the break, we were talking.

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And you shared that for the longest

time, you didn't even pay yourself.

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Why don't you talk to us about first

off, why you made that decision.

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But second off, how do you keep putting

in all this effort when you're not

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getting any, it seems like you're not

getting any kind of real reward for it?

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Josh Schaeding: Yeah, Yeah,

it's hard to describe, I guess.

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The reward of doing a good job,

making everybody happy and enjoying

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the food they're eating here.

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That's what really kept us going.

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You know, just good work ethic.

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only two things you can control,

I read this not too long ago, is

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your work ethic and your attitude.

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Everything else in life

is out of your control.

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So just work hard, have a good

attitude, You know, smile, make money.

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yeah, so, we just picked away at it.

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And, you know, it wasn't that I didn't

pay myself, we still afforded our

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groceries and stuff cuz we just ate here.

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You know, so, so, I mean our

basic but on the hog No, yeah.

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Our basic living expenses were met,

you know, no putting no money into

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your 401k or nothing for years.

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You know, just to build the

restaurant up to where it is.

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And it all it all paid off.

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Cliff Duvernois: You've mentioned

this a couple times now.

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This really is a family affair.

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You know, your family, owns this building.

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I know that you had had, uh, mentioned

before when we were talking about how

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you actually get meat and vegetables

from a lot of people in your family.

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Talk to us about having that component,

that support system in place.

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Yeah, cause

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Josh Schaeding: you know, where

sweat equity is, you know, like,

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like I said, my mom and dad, my mom

essentially retired a few years after

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we started it from her teaching job.

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My dad, you know, I guess retired

out of construction to do this.

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And my wife quit her daytime

job, once we started really

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getting busy and jumped on board.

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So, um, yeah, all four of us work here.

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You know, like so we weren't

paying ourselves for years.

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So just what I could be going back

into it and just to make it work.

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And it was interesting having

dinner here the other night

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cause your dad still works here.

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My dad, my mom, my wife,

we all work here all day.

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Now is there any cause of

stress or anything cause you are

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working with your family and it’s

like you don’t get that break.

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You

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go home and you still see them.

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Yeah, it, it took a few

years to really accept it.

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A lot of people come through

here and they're like, I

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don't know how you guys do it.

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We kill each other.

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And I guess that's how you see a lot of

businesses fail or restaurants, um, you

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know, where the family's working together.

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And some people need that separation,

but we seem to, I guess we excelled

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over the years by, by doing it.

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Not that it hasn't been any

fights, but yeah, but they've

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gotten a lot less frequent.

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Cliff Duvernois: When you're talking

about, like, let's say meat, for example,

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you were talking about how you buy the

whole cow versus just buying steaks.

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Why would you, why would you go

that route, nose to tail, all right?

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I think it's a term

you said, nose to tail.

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Why would you go that route versus

just saying, okay, we're going

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to need, 14 prime rib steaks.

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We're going to need 12 ribeye

steaks and just get them

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plastic wrapped or something.

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Josh Schaeding: I, I don't know.

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Just it was fresh and local.

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it's just better quality.

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I mean, somebody last night walked out.

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They're like, how was

this burger that good?

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I was like, well, we just

ground it four hours ago.

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You know, so just for me, like it's

just eating the best food I can get my

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hands on, you know, like eating food.

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That's why I do this and, if you get

the best food, it's hard to mess it up.

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Um, When you start with bad

food, you're not going to the

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chance of making it taste good.

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It just goes downhill.

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Cliff Duvernois: And that thing I saw

when I was here having dinner here is

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when you talk about hands on is literally

you making the hamburger patties

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Josh Schaeding: it wasn't like

you pulled it out of a box.

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Yes, I guess creates a lot of,

more transparency, I guess.

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So you can stand there and watch me do it.

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You know, it wasn't coming out

of the box when you walk in.

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Cliff Duvernois: And what about the

decision to cause I know you said you do

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everything on the grill your kitchen is an

open grill concept meaning everybody can

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see what it is that you're doing versus

like maybe having it in a kitchen area.

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Why go the route to have an open kitchen?

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Josh Schaeding: One of the things

I guess I've learned to do in this

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is a lot of people are picky about

their food and where they eat.

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So some people come in

here and they eat here.

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And don't really eat anywhere

else because of the transparency.

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You can walk in and see what's going

on, They know if something gets dropped

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on the floor, it's not getting put on

a plate, And they can see, you know,

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the cleanliness of the kitchen, you

know, when we're, everything's kind of

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neat and clean, even when we're busy.

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So I guess, you know, just being out

in the open, I think, makes people feel

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more comfortable about dining here.

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Yep,

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yep.

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Cliff Duvernois: chalkboard.

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Why not print out a menu?

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Why do, why go the chalkboard route?

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Josh Schaeding: we, we are a

counter service restaurant.

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And it just, out of the gate, made it

easier on staffing, needing less, you

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know, people, um, to get started with.

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And, you know, so I guess because

of the way we run out of menu items,

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you know, like today I just cut 14

filet mignons and 16 ribeye steaks.

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If we had multiple servers out waiting on

tables, you know, especially with, before

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the handheld, computers that they take

to the tables in most restaurants now.

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you could, Easy to oversell stuff.

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and uh, so that was our concept

out of the gate was to be a counter

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service restaurant, with a chalkboard.

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So that when we run out of those 16

steaks, we can just erase it right away.

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Once we upgraded to the, you know, point

of sale system, it kind of even made

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it easier because then we could put the

quantity in for the day, which makes

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it easier for somebody ordering online.

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So if we wanted to now at this

route, we could have servers

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walking around taking orders.

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But we just decided to

stay counter service.

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It's kind of been our

thing from the beginning.

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And we'll continue to do it.

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Cliff Duvernois: Now, what

about the pricing for this?

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Your prices are really reasonable Looking

at the board, I thought the family of four

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could easily come in here, have a nice

meal, and not go broke while doing it.

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You could charge a lot

more, but you don't.

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Why not?

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Josh Schaeding: The area we're in.

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to outprice myself.

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But out of the beginning was

about making it affordable for

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a family of four to come out.

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Um, I feel like, you know, we're

pretty close to competing with

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even a lot of fast food places.

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When you get, a little burger and

fries, if you went by weight and came

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here and weighed the same amount of

food, you're getting twice as much

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food for not a whole much more at this

point, you know, in our recent economy.

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So yeah, like you said, you know,

you could, these same steaks are

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quite a bit more money in a big city.

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But, you know, the cost of

living is higher there, the cost

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of rent, everything's a little

higher in the city, I guess.

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and that and the fact that I don't

got, you know, an overly large staff.

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So I don't got all the

servers walking around.

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and bussers walking around.

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Cliff Duvernois: around.

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So you have slightly less overhead.

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Josh Schaeding: I do have a little

less overhead, to an extent, because

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I make up for it, by having, how many

restaurants paid gardeners, so we have,

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yeah, we have gardeners employed.

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you know, we're hands on

with a lot of things we do.

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And so I don't necessarily have, to

pay for a lot of this, extra stuff

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that we do behind the scenes, you

know, we take care of ourselves instead

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of paying somebody else to do it.

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so for the most part, our overhead,

we keep down in certain aspects.

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But a little higher on on the other end.

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So there's a lot of vegetables

I could probably actually buy

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cheaper than we grow them.

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And just due to, labor.

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labor dollars.

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Cliff Duvernois: And why is it

important for you to have most, if

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not all, of your ingredients, your

food, your meats, whatever it is,

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come from Michigan, you know, versus

maybe saving a buck or two and getting

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something delivered from California.

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California

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Josh Schaeding: It's always right

back to the freshness of it.

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keep the food miles down.

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you know, Which is a

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before, Yeah, yeah.

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So, you know, we fill semi loads of

food and drive it across the country

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and, it adds to the cost of it.

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Even though we're, you know, we

do all of our own hauling of the

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animals and stuff and moving stuff

around and, you know, bringing the

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vegetables in and washing them.

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You know, the price probably equals

about out, far as dollars go.

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Um, but overall it's, better for the

environment, keeping the food miles down.

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Cliff Duvernois: And then how do

you make the decision about who

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you're going to buy produce from,

who you're going to buy meat from?

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process work?

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Josh Schaeding: process Just really

whoever's got stuff ready and available.

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you know, We just jumped off

my Uncle Matt's farm and on to

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another local farmer with his beef

because he had nothing ready to go.

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So, you know, I'd cycle through, a handful

of different suppliers and, in the area

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just based off what they have available.

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Cliff Duvernois: Interesting,

because you said Uncle Matt's farm.

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Is that another aspect of your

business that your family contributes

426

to is the fact that they're

farmers in the area, whether it's

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beef or whether it's vegetable?

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Josh Schaeding: Yeah, I mean,

that's a big part of it.

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Like I said, that's how I was raised.

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Not that I grew up on a farm,

but my, my family had a farm.

431

My mom's side of the family.

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you know, they're heavily,

heavily involved in the 4 H.

433

I mean, my whole life I've

always been eating local beef

434

and local pigs and stuff.

435

that's just what I was raised on.

436

And so I, I noticed a

difference when I go out to eat.

437

on the quality of some of the stuff.

438

Yep.

439

Cliff Duvernois: Before you made a

comment about community and the importance

440

of investing into the community.

441

Why is that important?

442

Josh Schaeding: I guess

it just shows you care.

443

you know, They support you.

444

You got to support them back.

445

you know, we do a lot of quite a few,

um, fundraisers for, local hemlock

446

events or 4 H events and, um, clubs.

447

you know, a lot of gift certificates for

silent auctions for fundraisers, you know.

448

Oh, nice.

449

Yeah, I mean, you'd actually be surprised

at how many fundraisers are going on

450

every week once you get start getting

approached for gift certificates.

451

Cliff Duvernois: Well I could imagine

452

Josh Schaeding: on the flip side

if somebody gets a gift certificate

453

from you for their silent auction,

they're going to tell their friends.

454

Cliff Duvernois: Yeah.

455

Oh love the Maple Grille.

456

Got a Yeah.

457

certificate from them.

458

So you're probably getting

hit up quite a bit.

459

Josh Schaeding: Yep.

460

quite a bit.

461

Yep.

462

Cliff Duvernois: And then what one

aspect of this and as a business

463

owner, you've got to love this.

464

You've had people coming

here for well over a decade.

465

I referenced before the couple that

I was talking to the other night that

466

467

How does that make you feel knowing

that these people love what it is you're

468

doing so much that they're willing to

come back sometimes week after week,

469

at least once a month for decades.

470

Josh Schaeding: guess

that's why we keep doing it.

471

Because they just keep coming back.

472

Over the years, I've done a lot of

um, wedding showers, weddings, and

473

then, baby showers, for the same

family, the same person, you know,

474

I'm just watching, at this point,

I've watched a lot of people grow up,

475

a lot of kids grow up into adults.

476

And now I'm starting to employ some

of them, which is kind of, you know,

477

kind of fun, they've been coming here

to eat for years, and now they're

478

working here as, their high school job.

479

Cliff Duvernois: If somebody

is coming here, never heard

480

of the Maple Grille before.

481

When they walk through those

doors, what can they expect?

482

Josh Schaeding: First you

get hit with the smell.

483

Um, the smoke, yup, the smoke in the air,

the smell of the meat cooking, brings

484

back, I think we touched on it before,

a primal thing, like even vegetarian.

485

And they walk in there like,

Oh man this smells great.

486

And all they're smelling is meat cooking.

487

And you know, they don't eat meat, cause

it's something you know, ingrained in

488

us as humans that when you smell the

fire, thousands and thousands of years

489

ago was associated with food and warmth.

490

So it just brings back, you

know just something inside

491

you that you can't describe.

492

Then after that you walk in

and you walk through our doors.

493

And there's a, it's a

counter service restaurant.

494

Order at the counter, chalkboard's there.

495

Grab a drink, have a seat, sit down.

496

We bring it to you.

497

A lot of people don't When they go

out to eat, especially, they want

498

to be served and waited on, and

we're not that style of restaurant.

499

A lot of times if you have a

problem with your food, you got

500

to walk back up to the counter.

501

You need another beer, you got

to walk back up to the counter.

502

We keep the to go boxes out here

so people can grab them, you know,

503

if we're running short staffed

or just, you know, really busy.

504

So those are the few things, you know,

you come in and expect that you might

505

want to look at the menu before you come.

506

So you got, you know, one or two,

three choices that you want to eat.

507

Because you might get here and something

might be gone by the time you get here.

508

Yep, and I know You know if you start

really following us, you'll see a two

509

week cycle of everything Most of our

purchasing decisions, especially on

510

the protein run on a two week cycle.

511

So this is this week's the start of

the cycle and by the 17th Saturday

512

17th will be a sellout Saturday.

513

And we'll pretty much basically

run out of food on that day

514

Cliff Duvernois: a And for some

place that's farm to table how do you

515

handle it when you run out of food.

516

You just tell everybody we're out of food?

517

Josh Schaeding: Yeah, a rarity that

we actually run completely out.

518

Um, if anything, we still got pizzas left.

519

We almost always have a few burgers left.

520

Um, this past Saturday was the closest

I've been in a while to running

521

out of everything, except pizzas.

522

You know, if ten more people would have

walked in the door Saturday night, all

523

that would have been left is was pizzas.

524

Cliff Duvernois: Really does boil

525

Josh Schaeding: The menu really

does whittle down, you know,

526

every other Saturday to nothing.

527

Cliff Duvernois: And then I guess

my next question would be, keeping

528

in mind that your menu is constantly

changing and if you're out of

529

something, it gets crossed off the menu.

530

Talk to us about, I can't really ask you

what people should order when they come.

531

But what should they be I guess

what should they be thinking about.

532

Or what can't what on their

menu can Like me, I don't know.

533

I don't even know how to ask the

question cuz I can't say staples either

534

But maybe what should what should they

be thinking about when they're coming

535

here and they're looking at the menu

536

Josh Schaeding: Well, a lot of people,

we find this always joke around about it.

537

They'll come out be their first time here

and they both order the same exact thing.

538

so try to order something different maybe.

539

Right

540

Um, And I don't know why people do that.

541

Um, 'cause I always, when we go out

to eat, we, I would never even think

542

about ordering the same thing as I

want to try as many things as I can.

543

Certainly.

544

So yeah, you can't come here and

get necessarily sampler platter.

545

a lot of people come in,

think we're a barbecue place

546

'cause of the way it smells.

547

But, and we're quite the

opposite of it, you know?

548

'cause we don't do.

549

You know, mass quantity of ribs

and brisket and stuff like that.

550

yeah.

551

Cliff Duvernois: And then your same

philosophy is with, with it comes to meat.

552

It also applies to fish.

553

Josh Schaeding: Yeah.

554

So we, all our fish comes out of Lake

Huron, um, from the Straits area.

555

A majority of it sometimes is coming

out of, Lake Superior depending on

556

where they're chasing whitefish.

557

but yeah, just, local commercial fishery.

558

And the family's all interconnected

with them, you know, and they bring

559

the fish down to me every, every week.

560

Cliff Duvernois: Josh if somebody

is listening to this, and they want

561

to come and check out the Maple

Grille, what is it you're doing?

562

Where can they find you?

563

Josh Schaeding: Facebook.

564

I think that's our number

one thing is Facebook.

565

We're always updating our hours on there.

566

We're open Tuesday

through Saturday, 11 to 8.

567

We don't take reservations.

568

So I think the best thing is Facebook.

569

You get to get on there, see our

menu, or get on our website as well.

570

Cause It's just a picture of our

chalkboard menu on, right on the website.

571

Which is updated daily.

572

Yup.

573

I believe we get our menu shoots

Instagram to when you put it on Facebook,

574

so you can find us on there as well.

575

But we don't check Instagram at all.

576

Just link together somehow.

577

Cliff Duvernois: Josh, thank you so much

for taking time to talk with us today.

578

We really do appreciate it.

579

And for our audience, you can always

roll on over to TotalMichigan.

580

com, click on Josh's interview and

get the links that he mentioned above.

581

We'll see you next time when we

talk to another Michigander doing

582

some pretty extraordinary things.

583

We'll see you then.