Reinvent Your Future: Extraordinary Second Chapters

Cliff Duvernois (2): More and

more, I see people chasing

2

their passions later in life.

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They've had careers, they've done really

well for themselves, but now that people

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are approaching their 50s and retirement

is coming, they're asking themselves,

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what do I really want to do with my life?

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What is the second chapter

going to look like?

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Now, what this means is that more

and more people realize that their

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best years are not behind them,

but actually in front of them.

9

Hello, everyone, and welcome to

Total Michigan, where we interview

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ordinary Michiganders doing some

pretty extraordinary things.

11

I'm your host, Cliff Duvenois.

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What if the best years of

your life are in front of you?

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What if your greatest adventure Is

a waiting for you after you turn

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50 or even 60 for that matter.

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Now you might be asking yourself self,

why is Cliff asking these questions?

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Well, I'm glad you asked.

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There's been this trend on total Michigan

lately, where guests who are in their

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fifties or even quickly approaching

their fifties, we're beginning to

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wonder about retirement, what were

they going to do with themselves?

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Now, these people who, you know, every

one of them approaching retirement,

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Every single one of them said, no,

I got a lot of life left in me.

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I'm not ready to slow down and play golf.

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So they all explored and they're now

sharing their real passions with the

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world, having an impact on others.

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And they all have

amazing stories to share.

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So what I did is I picked out

three stories from previous guests.

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We're going to pull some lessons

that we can learn from them as they

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have navigated this chapter of their

life and how they're crushing it.

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At the end, I'm going to share

a bonus lesson, which I actually

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think is the most important.

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So make sure to stick around

until the end to catch that one.

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To start us off, we are going

to enter the world of wine.

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This is Brett Scharnhorst of

Vinomondo located in Port Huron.

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Let's go ahead and roll that clip.

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Brett Scharnhorst: But, uh,

that's my background is in I.

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T.

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Actually, I'm an I.

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T.

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Project manager for a company

called Taubman, a wonderful place.

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And, uh, You know, that's just what

I've been doing for all of these years.

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That's what my career has been.

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But uh through a series of events that

took place over the course of my life.

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I just found myself in a situation

where Uh, I was talking to my

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wife and I said, you know, I'm not

so certain about our retirement.

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You know, What are we going to do

after we get to the point that?

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Because you know it is an industry

that is constantly evolving.

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Uh, We've got people coming out of

colleges that know so much more than I do.

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And frankly, they can get paid less.

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So it's, it's just something that

kind of weighs on you after a while.

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I mean, right now I'm a project

manager, so I've kind of evolved

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out of the, you know, development

phase of things, but it's something

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that always stuck in my mind.

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So, uh, my wife and I, having been repeat

customers of Vinomondo here for eight

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to 10 years, uh, we thought, well, why

don't we try our hand at making our

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own wines and see how that works out.

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So we started out something

that was a grassroots operation.

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And, uh, we learned shortly thereafter

that the people who owned Vinomondo

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here were looking to retire and sell.

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So at that point we thought, well,

why don't we maybe just pool our

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resources and talk with the owners

and see about buying this facility?

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Because we didn't want

this place to go away.

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Our fear was that somebody was going

to come in, put their own spin on it,

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change how things worked around here.

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The, the batch concept was

absolutely a must have.

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I mean, and that is something that

we thought would probably be the

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first thing that would get cut.

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And we didn't want that

because that's something that's

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really unique to Vinomondo.

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So, uh, we went through the, uh, natural

course and channels and everything.

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We went through the process of,

uh, purchasing the winery and in

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So Jackie and I have been, uh, in

owners of Vinomondo wineries since then.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): And all of a

sudden, Vinomondo is like the owners

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are like, yeah, we want to retire.

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We want to get out and get out.

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And the best way I can describe it

is you kind of had this Homer Simpson

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moment where you're just like, hey,

Let's let's buy this place, right?

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So talk to us why, why would you

think about, cause you didn't

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grow up on a vineyard, right?

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You didn't grow up growing grapes.

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So my question is, is why would

you think let's buy this place?

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Brett Scharnhorst: It just kind

of seemed to fall into our laps.

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So, um, I, I, I just don't

know how else to explain it.

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It was, it's such a, uh, it's

such a contrast to go from I.

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T.

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to the world of winemaking.

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And, uh, people when I tell

people that they just kind

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of look at me and go, really?

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That's, that's kind of a

different avenue to take.

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Um, But it's it's a lot more laid

back I guess in a manner of speaking.

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It's it's just a means of just sitting

back and just looking at the world

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and just saying, you know what?

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I'm, just going to take it easy.

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The wine is good.

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You know life's too short

to drink cheap wine.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): Amen to that.

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Yeah Yeah

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There is so much to unpack from that.

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So Brett is an IT project manager who

decided on trading in his keyboard and

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coding for grapes and wine barrels.

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During his interview, he mentioned that

part of having Vinomondo was helped

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to supplement their retirement income.

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Now, I got to admit, I'm a little bit

suspicious of that because he was having

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way too much fun in that little shop.

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I do remember during the interview, I

was going to ask him why he just didn't

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think about going into consulting

with all of his years of experience.

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He could do what any number of IT

professionals do and just join the

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ranks of consultants, charge 150, 250

bucks an hour, and just call it a day.

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But the answer to that

question was pretty obvious.

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He truly is passionate about what he does.

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This is what Gay Hendricks

calls the Zone of Genius.

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Now in his book, The Big Leap, Gay

Hendricks talks about these four zones

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that people typically operate in.

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You've got the Zone of

Incompetence, you've got the

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Zone of Competence, the Zone of

Excellence, and the Zone of Genius.

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I wish I had time to delve

into all four of these.

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But I only got 18 minutes left.

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Most people during their day are

operating in their Zone of Excellence.

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They are good at what it is that

they do and they can make a good

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living while they're doing it.

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But in the Zone of Genius, the

special area where we use our God

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given talents and strengths to do

something really, really special for

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Brett, his zone of genius is not wine.

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It's actually people, people having

great experiences, people creating

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wonderful memories, spending time

with the people that they care about.

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And wine is just a part of that.

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When you listen to his entire

interview, he hardly ever talks

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about the technical stuff with wine.

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Never once did he say, Oh, well, this

wine has hints of tangerine, apple,

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snips and snails and puppy dog tails.

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Stuff that us mere mortals can't taste.

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However, comma, he talks

about the experience.

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The fun that a DIY winery can be for

people from picking out their own kind

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of wines to creating their own kind of

labels, and then bottling it themselves.

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Now he hasn't quit his full

time job to go into winemaking.

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He's still there and he'll remain

there until he one day retires.

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For now, when he gets off from work,

he just goes to his passion project.

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He and his wife focus on providing a

stellar experience for their customers.

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So, Lesson Number One, pick something

that you are truly passionate about

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and want to share with others.

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Now, I can just imagine someone right now

is saying to themselves, but self, I don't

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have the credentials, I don't have the

degree, I don't have the certifications.

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What in the world can I possibly do?

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Well, I'm glad you asked for this.

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We're actually going to

look at our second guest.

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Her name is Patti Christopher, owner of

Patricia's chocolates in Grand Haven.

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Patricia Christopher:

up here in Grand Haven

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Cliff Duvernois (2): Okay.

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Patricia Christopher: And

I've really never left.

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I went to college here, became

a special education teacher.

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And then went to Michigan State

and got a couple more degrees.

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Graduate degrees ended up

being a school psychologist.

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And had a private practice as

a psychologist, worked with

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children and adolescents.

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And then I worked as a school

psychologist in the schools forever

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for Grand Rapids Public Schools and

Mona Shore's public schools here.

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And about five years before I

retired, I thought what am I going

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to do for the rest of my life?

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I was going to retire when I was 51.

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And I don't play golf.

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So, I thought, well, I love

making pastries and desserts.

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So, I, um, started

calling culinary schools.

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And ended up starting to take

classes at the French pastry

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school in Chicago and Berry Calabo

Chocolate Academy in Montreal.

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And then they opened a

branch in Chicago, too.

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So, I've taken most of

my classes from them.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): At what point

in time did you start fooling

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around with the world of pastries?

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Patricia Christopher: That

was probably in my twenties.

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And I would always be the person

to volunteer to bring desserts if

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we were going to someone's house.

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So I was the dessert queen.

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everybody's favorite person.

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Yes.

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Just elaborate torts.

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It's ganache fillings, chocolate

bands around the outside of the cakes.

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And that morphed into my wanting

to do chocolate at some point.

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I love chocolate.

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It's hard not

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Cliff Duvernois (2): Why the hassle

of going back to like the Culinary

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Institute and to these chocolatier

schools and things like that?

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Why not just do it on your own?

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Patricia Christopher: I think what I

learned I started looking at pastry books

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and I realized that the pastry books

I needed to focus on were in grams,

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not teaspoons, cups, half cups.

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So the measurements were different.

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That made me start thinking about

Europe and European chefs, and in

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particular pastry chefs and chocolatiers.

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Um, It was a relatively new field when

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So It wasn't that I was going

back for another degree, because

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I was already working full time.

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So I couldn't do that.

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but they would have guest chef

classes, where they would have chefs

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from France, um, Belgium, come over,

and they were three day classes.

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And so I would go to Chicago or Montreal

for three days and just take classes

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with other chefs from around the country,

who had the same interests that I had.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): And now

so when so it's not like you

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went to school full time.

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Culinary school full time.

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It was just taking these classes?

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Patricia Christopher: Correct.

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That's how I started.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): There is one thing I

do want to bring up from Patti's interview

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that I thought was really interesting.

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And that's another thing that I hear

from people as well, when they start

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talking about the fact of, well, I

don't have an office, I don't have a

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place of business to actually go to,

I don't have a storefront, I don't

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have money to afford these things.

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Let's listen to how Patti

actually handled this.

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Patricia Christopher: But about

a year into taking classes, I was

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making, in my home kitchen, a lot

of chocolates and giving them away.

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Ganache palettes, as I

make them, or bonbons.

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I was giving so many away that

it was becoming quite expensive.

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And I remember saying to my husband, I

think I could turn this into a business.

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But I didn't want a

brick and mortar store.

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I didn't want to have

employees at the time.

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I just wanted to make chocolate.

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So, I called the health department

and asked them how I would put a

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commercial kitchen in our house.

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So I can't have signage

or anything like that.

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But that's how I started my business.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): I really wish we had

more time to unpack Patti's interview,

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the story about how she built her

delicious chocolate shop could easily

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be a masterclass at any university.

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So, our psychologist has

become a chocolatier.

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Now, did she get a two

year degree to do this?

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Did she spend a year in France learning

how to make really great chocolates?

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No.

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She probably wish she did, though.

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But Patti realized that all she needed to

do was to take some classes in chocolate.

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That's it.

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Some kind of a three day, maybe

a week class in some city.

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But what's interesting is that most people

think that they have to have some kind of

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a degree or certification or else for some

reason, people won't take them seriously.

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Now, could you imagine if somebody had

walked into Patricia's chocolates and

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said, Hey, I want to see your degree.

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What culinary Institute did you go to?

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All Patti would have to do is just

shove a chocolate in her mouth and

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they'd fall on the floor giggling.

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Nobody cares.

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Nobody's going to ask you about your

certification degree or anything else.

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What they care about is if

you can deliver the results on

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what it is that you promise.

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And for Patti, it's about a superior

chocolate experience for our customers.

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That's it.

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What I find interesting about Patty's

journey is the fact that she just

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started the whole thing in her kitchen.

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Literally started it in her kitchen.

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And it wasn't until she outgrew

what her kitchen could do that she

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decided to upgrade to a professional

kitchen had to go through all the

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certifications for that and et cetera.

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And then when she finally realized

that she can make a real solid business

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from this and demand was going to be

really high for her product, that's

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when she started thinking, I'm going

to need employees to help me make

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chocolates to keep up with the demand.

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And she didn't want employees

running around her home.

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So then, and only then, That's

when she went after a shop, right?

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A place that she could set up and have

people come to have employees come

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to and to be able to go from there.

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So moral of the story is

that you don't need a degree.

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You don't need a certification.

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You don't need an office.

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You don't need someplace

professional to just get started.

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Those things will come in time.

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After the break.

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We're going to explore a question that

stops most people in their tracks.

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And that question is this, do I

have to really do this by myself?

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We'll see you after the break.

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Hello everyone.

291

Welcome back to Total Michigan, where

we interview ordinary Michiganders

292

doing some pretty extraordinary things.

293

I'm your host, Cliff DuVernois.

294

Today, we are exploring the question.

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What if your greatest adventures are

waiting for you after you turn 50?

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Could this next chapter of your life be

the most exciting chapter of your life?

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And during the break, I took out my

magic eight ball, gave it a quick shake,

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and it said all signs point to yes.

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So here we go.

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Now, in the last segment, we heard

from Brett from Vino Mundo, as well

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as Patti from Patricia's Chocolates.

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From Brett, we learned that you

should really pick something that

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you're truly passionate about

and want to share it with others.

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From Patti, we learned that you don't need

to have fancy degrees or certificates.

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So now let's move on to the third lesson.

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And don't forget, I have that

bonus lesson that I'm going

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to share with you at the end.

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So stick around for that.

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Now, when I talk to people and

they're sharing with me a little

310

bit about their passion, what it is

that they think that they do, a lot

311

of the times they think that they,

they're the only ones who can do it.

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They're flying solo, they're off by

themselves or whatever it is, so to speak.

313

And that can get pretty lonely, but what

if you had the people around you that

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had skills that kind of complimented your

own and could really do something bigger

315

than you could just do for yourself.

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And for that, I want to roll some clips

from my interview with Pam Westridge.

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She runs tiny dig

lakeshores out of Muskegon.

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And, uh, let's listen

to this clip from Pam.

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Pam Westra: Well, kind of a fluky thing.

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My husband's dad was a home builder in

West Michigan here, back in the day.

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He died a few years ago at age 94.

322

But, um, the, um, housing industry,

my husband really, once he got

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out of the military, he was

drafted during the Vietnam War.

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Once he got out of the service, you

know, he had his, his, uh, four years

325

of college paid for from the, um, army.

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So he said, no, dad, I'm, you know, not

going to do the home building with you.

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But he'd always grown up in that.

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His dad trained him.

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He, old school dad, you know, he

knew from, you know, all the old

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tricks of a master carpenter.

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And, uh, so my husband learned all those.

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Um, But as my husband progressed

in his professions, because

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he had a couple of them.

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He ended up being a

chiropractor for about 25 years.

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And we had a wellness

center in Spring Lake.

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My former career was being

a special education teacher.

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But when he got out of college

with his chiropractic degree,

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we were in our thirties.

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And I decided, okay, I've done

I'm teaching for 10 years.

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I will help run our wellness center.

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So we had a very successful, um, good, uh,

wellness center that we helped and saved a

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lot of people's, um, uh, health and taught

them about wellness for all those years.

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We needed a change.

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that, hit the road in an RV

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for seven years to travel

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Our son moved to the west

coast during that time.

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And, um, Kevin and I kept, that's

my oldest son, uh, we kept seeing

348

the tiny house movement and

thought, oh, they're so cute.

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Those tiny houses.

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You know, They're like little doll houses.

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Um, every girl's dream when they were a

little kid to have a, a, a tiny house.

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a dollhouse to play in or even a

kid with forts because you'll see

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some of the houses are more rustic.

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My son designed and my husband

designs things and we design all

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our houses, we build all our houses.

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or so, we started creating this idea.

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So a good 10 years ago.

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And researching it, deciding we right?

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Yeah, that was in Portland, Oregon.

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Um, Tiny Digs Lakeshore here has only

been open for like a little 10 months now.

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Oh, And so it's very new.

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tiny house movement started really

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taking off, as many people know, there

were probably seven, eight TV shows

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on at one time about tiny houses.

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And it was quite a thing.

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Um, I had a lot of women friends, um,

that were single, um, maybe divorced

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or widowed, or maybe never been

married, and they said, Oh, you know,

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this tiny house movement is so cool.

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Why don't you build a tiny house

village where we could all go live,

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have a communal room where you could

go do yoga, cooking, crafts, that

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kind of thing, and a community garden.

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And I said, Oh, that sounds

like such a great idea.

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And so we started checking into that.

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But at that time, 10 years ago,

the powers that be were not

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ready for tiny house communities.

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And there just weren't any at that time.

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People were fighting around the

nation with Uh, governmental

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entities, trying to get them approved.

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Um, But because they were so new, so

unusual, such a tiny space, um, they

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weren't sure they wanted to accept them.

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Now, ten years later, um, all our border

states in the United States all have,

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um, uh, uh, tiny house communities.

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Um, It's starting to spread inward

to, uh, some of the interstates.

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Um, We have tiny house communities

all the way from Kentucky,

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um, all the way to Florida.

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And, um, They're just popping up all over.

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So we said, you know, we'd don't have the

time or the energy to fight government.

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And so what's another avenue that

we can use to bring tiny houses

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into existence and acceptance?

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So that the powers that be would accept

them a little easier and not think of

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them as something too odd and weird.

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And, um, so Tiny House Hotels

were springing up, um, even

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before that ten year ago mark.

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And, um, people were developing them,

and people were flocking to them

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for a different experiential stay

to go to something different than

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a box hotel room with blank walls.

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As you can see here, we don't have

blank walls It's, a fun little, um,

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venture here with all the little

tchotchkes around to fit the theme

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and, uh, fun stuff on the walls.

400

And, um, so, It was easier

to jump in the arena with the

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governmental entities and do a hotel.

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In Portland, Oregon, where we started

at, where our son was living, um,

403

they already had one tiny house hotel.

404

Um, But they were always

100 percent booked.

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So we said, Portland,

Oregon is such a huge city.

406

I think there's room for another one.

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And so we went there.

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And, It only took us three

months to get approved out there.

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There were lots of different stipulations.

410

And, um, but even Portland, as

progressive as it was accepting tiny

411

house hotels, it took till we were

there three or four years before

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to legally live in a tiny house.

413

Cliff Duvernois (2): You can start to see

how the puzzle pieces are coming together.

414

So Pam and her husband already know

what it's like to run a business.

415

They already know each other's quirks,

but they also understand the different

416

skills that each one of them have

and how they compliment each other.

417

The thing is though, is that before this

hall started, they were doing what most

418

people want to do, and that was travel.

419

Well, they stopped traveling, but

they're still in the travel business.

420

Only now travelers actually come to them.

421

So as we unpack Pam's story,

it really is a family affair.

422

They all jumped in on

this tiny home movement.

423

They've all brought their skills to the

table, whether it's construction, interior

424

decorating, taking care of customers,

uh, booking slots, whatever it might be.

425

Everybody in the family is doing

something to bring a skill to the table.

426

That's all making this work together.

427

So the moral story is you don't

have to do this by yourself.

428

Even if your family doesn't want

to be involved, you can still find

429

partners to work with or team up with.

430

So I know that when I have struggles,

especially when it comes to this

431

show here, I often find it's

because it's a lack of imagination.

432

Instead of asking myself how to do

something, it's better to ask the

433

question, who knows how to do When I

need to get done, who's got a large

434

group of people that I could get in

front of, who knows how to do marketing

435

and branding, who knows how to set up

my website, who knows how to set up my

436

phone so I can take credit card payments.

437

But I do got to admit one thing

I really like about Pam story.

438

It's a sense of legacy.

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Their family is truly

building a family business.

440

Now, when I interviewed Pam, she was

telling me about a new project that they

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got going on, capitalizing on this whole.

442

Yeah.

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Off the grid travel movement

thing that's happening.

444

So lesson number three,

don't limit yourself.

445

Okay.

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We're now in the home stretch and

I know what you're asking yourself.

447

Self is this cliff guy

ever going to shut up?

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No, but here's the bonus lesson

that I have been promising.

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And it comes from the second

oldest interviewee on the show.

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And that would be bill

duckwall of paddling Michigan.

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Let's go ahead and cue that clip.

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Bill Duckwall: And even while I

was flying as a commercial pilot, I

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had a lot of time off that I could

do small businesses on the side.

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So, when I retired from that,

and I had to retire at the

455

age of 60, because I'm 81 now.

456

But that's when I really got

going with Paddling Michigan.

457

And, uh, Basically, it's all

been done in my retirement years.

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Of course, I couldn't

do, you know, all of it.

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I've had great staff.

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I've had a great general manager

named Greg Scott that's been with

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me, uh, for about 15 years now.

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And, uh, we, we've been able to

hire the right people and come

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up with the right products.

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And, uh, you know.

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I was just kind of the guy

behind the scenes, really.

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Dealing with the capital type

expenditures and things like that.

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Greg kind of ran the business more, but

I still like it, you know and, and I like

468

to, um, keep active, keep active in it.

469

I think it's good for my brain.

470

You know, it keeps me

challenges every day, every day.

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And, uh, uh, I continue to keep going.

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Cliff Duvernois (2): I really did

like that interview with Bill.

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One thing I want to key in,

though, is on that last part.

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I like to keep active in it.

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I think it's good for my brain.

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I think it keeps me challenged.

477

This is the most important part

why I believe that the 50 plus is

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the time to turn your passions into

something you can share with others.

479

Keeping your mind going, keeping

it active, keep challenging

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yourself to do bigger and better

things to have more of an impact.

481

Believe it or not, it's all these

mental gymnastics help to keep your mind

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sharp as you go in your senior years.

483

Maybe it'll change the

world for the better.

484

Links to all of these interviews

are in the show notes down below.

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Thank you, ladies and

gentlemen, for your time.

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I will see you next week when we talk

to another Michigander that's doing

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some pretty extraordinary things.

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We'll see you then.